Posted by William Charles on August 20, 2017
Credit Card Offers

Published on August 20th, 2017 | by William Charles


Bypassing Chase 5/24 Using A BRM & A Paper Application (For Business Cards)

Update 2: Despite a lot of denied data points in the comments, it seems like this is still working for some people. It’s possible that some BRM didn’t submit a paper application properly or at all (they receive your paper applicaiton and then enter it in online rather than submitting the paper application itself) and that might have been the cause of the application failures. Here are some recent datapoints: 1, 2, 3, The first comment does a good job explaining what I am talking about as well.

Update: It looks like this is no longer working to bypass 5/24 with a lot of denied data points in the comments.

This was originally a password protected post, but it looks like the same reader posted on /r/churning as well.

A reader (who wants to name anonymous, but is well over 5/24) shared a way they were able to bypass the Chase 5/24 rule on business card applications. The method is pretty simple, basically it seems that if your application is put through by a business relationship manager (BRM) they go through to a special business lending department and they do not deny based on 5/24. It should also be noted that it seems like the BRM needs to put in a paper application to bypass 5/24, this was specifically mentioned by the BRM. If it’s put in online it goes through the normal application process. 

Not all branches have a business relationship manager, technically you’re also supposed to have business revenue of $500,000+ as well. That being said, readers have been able to get BRM’s to put their applications in even if they don’t meet this requirement.

It gets even better though, because if a BRM does put your application in then you’re also eligible for these bonuses:

Being a Chase Private Client used to by pass the 5/24 rule, but Chase removed this ability so I imagine this work around won’t last for ever. Let’s not ruin this for each other, try to be discreet in applying for these cards and please don’t waste time with the BRM or cause a scene if it’s not possible. As always, please share your data points and experiences in the comments below.

A few other things to note:

  • You can’t call regular reconsideration on these applications as only the specialized lending group can handle these applications

134 Responses to Bypassing Chase 5/24 Using A BRM & A Paper Application (For Business Cards)

  1. Eric says:

    I had a BRM put in an application for me a few months ago and was rejected. I had not asked the reason because I assumed it 5/24 which I am well over

  2. Dan says:

    In the reddit thread he claims he opened a business checking account last month with a $500 bonus coupon? I know the public deal is long expired and I haven’t heard of any targeted offers like that?… We sure this guy isn’t a troll, similar to the guy who made everyone waste pulls by claiming Marriott Personal didn’t count under 5/24?

    • SoloExperiment says:

      Far from a troll my friend. The $500 Chase Performance Business Checking coupons expired 3/31/17 🙂

    • 1 says:

      They constantly send out the $500 bonus offers in the mail.

      • lingua says:

        probably not lately, since 3/31 expiration at least, since they are nowhere to be found on ebay. Been waiting to pick one up.

    • HoustonRobert says:

      I don’t know if the guy trolls in other ways, but I also received (and redeemed) a targeted $500 bonus coupon from Chase last month. While the money hasn’t yet posted, I’ve hit my minimum of six transactions.

  3. Jess says:

    This doesn’t mean too much for 99% of us. Keep on churning hard folks.

  4. Rachel says:

    I can attest to this. I had my business manager put in a paper application for me after being denied for the I k Plus last fall (well over 5/24). In my case, we had to do extra paperwork and it still took 3 weeks and several phone calls from my banker to get it pushed through. It can be done if you have a good relationship with a persistent/relentless banker!

    • NinjaX says:

      well were you CPC? how many chase CC did you have with them and how many recent apps? i guess we will know soon enough if this method works because it will be blown out the water soon now its on doc…

  5. Credit says:

    I get my fico score 8 experian from Amex and my credit union. There is a difference of 30 points between the two. Why would that be.

    Also Amex gives a history of the score. My score is stuck at 799 for last 12 months. Why wouldn’t it go down or up? It had gone down to 796 a few months when I opened a few apps, then it went back to 799 and stuck there.

    • Charles says:

      Is this a troll? Nothing to do with Chase…
      Anyways it has to do with what agency they are pulling and if it is a true FICO or FAKO that your CU is giving you a score of. I would search through DoC’s page and find out where you can get your true FICO from, for all 3 agencies. This will give you a better picture of what your actual score should be.

  6. e* says:

    I think this is how I got approved over 5/24 for an Ink+ in Sept 2016 as well.

    • NinjaX says:

      wat was ur situation? like what were the stats and why did you use BRM at the time?

      • e* says:

        I was like 30/24 (not exact but well over 5/24 is the point). I was taking advantage of the business checking promotion bonus and the BRM asked me if I wanted to apply for the Ink+. I said I already had one and wouldn’t be able to get it anyways due to 5/24. He said, “What 5/24?” Long story short, I was approved after being grilled on the phone about my business.

        • NinjaX says:

          thank you for the DP. looks like lots of people got approved via BRM without even knowing it. meaning, looks like this method will die soon… haha.

  7. TooClose2Say says:

    I have been aware of this work around for a while and was kind of hoping it was not posted as Chase will now surely notice a surge in business applications and will respond accordingly when they are faced with having to staff up the very small Specialty Lending credit card group (the irony is that they could just read this blog or reddit but instead they only notice things after it costs them lots of money).
    In any event, the only reason this method bypasses 5/24 is that all BRM banking applications are manually submitted (by internal secure e-mail or fax) and processed by the Specialty Lending underwriting group (this group does not just do business credit though). BRM’s only get paid by submitting apps using this method compared to CPC and other branch bankers who get paid only on computer submitted apps. So here is why the 5/24 workaround for business cards works. Specialty Lending handles all BRM revolving credit card apps as well as all JPM (JP Morgan) Credit Cards (such as the Ritz Card and the JP Morgan Reserve (Private Bank Clients only)). Simply put their products have never been subject to 5/24 hence they do have the rule in their playbook. When Specialty Lending started getting INK apps over the past it has been business as usual for them and they therefore do not consider 5/24 in their analysis.

    Be advised that these applications, once submitted by a business lending banker (BRM) will not report any status usually for 5-7 business days via the normal toll free numbers. The cat is out of the bag and the clock is now ticking. Good luck.

    • Thanks for the additional info

    • Nick says:

      So are all cards not under 5/24 managed by specialty lending?

      If so, I would be worried those cards soon will given they will be slammed from this news. Thoughts?

      Also I want the Ritz card but have no use for it for a no the year lol

      • TooClose2Say says:

        No, it’s not a converse relationship. Only a handful of applications (from specific clients) go through Specialty Lending. A couple other important points is that Specialty Lending, despite not using the 5/24 rule, often has stricter lending requirements than the other consumer underwriting groups. Meaning that people on the fringe in terms of underwriting may very well get denied (but not due to 5/24) by Specialty Lending where they otherwise may have been approved by other consumer lending department criteria (ie they could get the IHG card from a different underwriting group despite being over 5.24).

        The reason other cards (IHG, Hyatt, ect) are not subject to 5/24 has more to do with the contracts with those travel partners as well as specific goals for the product. The fact that some products are not subject to 5/24 is deliberate and specific. In fact, it could be argued that the reason that BRM submitted business applications are not subject to 5/24 is deliberate as well. After all, a business doing millions of transactions with Chase is too valuable to pass up an even potentially more lucrative credit card relationship with.

        I imagine the way Chase fixes this loophole will be to strictly enforce and restrict BRM’s such that they can only submit business applications that come from Commercial coded banking accounts/clients. Chase does not have any better way to classify business banking relationships (only large commercial or not). Restricting BRM card apps to large commercial banking clients would most definitely raise the bar a bit higher as only a subset of BRM clients are classified as large commercial (very generally speaking large commercial means multi million plus in transactions per year). This probably was the intent anyway.

        Interestingly, there was a similar issue that was fixed in almost the identical manner when the JP Morgan Reserve Credit Card came out last year (which by the way is submitted by the exact same means, secure e-mail or fax, as BRM INK Business apps). For those who don’t know, JPMR is strictly offered only to Private Banking clients (ie around $10M+ in assets with JPM). When the JPMR first was released there were CPC and even regular banking reps who were able to submit JPMR apps for just about anyone via secure e-mail. There was even a leaked application that end customers faxed directly in to Chase! The fix for JPMR was to restrict those apps by checking to see if the applicant was coded as a JPM Private Bank client. It essentially shut the loophole down instantaneously. I imagine the same will happen for this loophole and applicants will be restricted to commercial banking signers (albeit that would be a little more complex as it would require two back to back steps in receiving applications to check for compliance).

        Lastly, the other little secret is that Specialty Lending does have the ability to move credit lines from personal to business as they have lending ability to both personal and business lines of credit. Best of luck!

        • Elliot says:

          This was awesome. Thank you! Meanwhile a data point: I just spoke to a BRM (about my legitimate business) who essentially told me he only uses the paper form (I’m referencing other comments) when he has to make a specific request, e.g. for a higher than usual credit line. Otherwise he just uses online system too

        • Moose Cow says:

          This is a very interesting and informative comment. Thank you. Do you happen to work at/with Chase? Anyway, I’ve been trying to track down a way to apply for the JPMR card, since I missed the fax leak by a day. Do you have any insight on how this could be done? Would my BRM be able to submit an application if I filled it out (I’m not CPC or PBC).

          If you know something but don’t want to post publicly, feel free to email me: just ping here that you replied because I don’t usually check that email.

        • Zal says:

          What is the best way to reach out to the Specialty Lending Group?
          For Credit Line shifting.
          Feel free to email: Zalcforums_AT_gmail_DOT_com

    • YouAren'tThatClose says:

      BRM don’t get paid on a per app basis, apps go into a bucket they are evaluated on. They do get credit for electronic and paper apps.

      This cat won’t die, the flood of people asking BRM’s to do paper app will have consequences. Such as they will state paper apps are to be only taken from clients with revenues in excess of $x,xxx,xxx or something. Paper apps are 5x the amount of work most BRM won’t be willing to do this for Johny and his eBay businesses anyways.

  8. Joe says:

    That’s great there’s a way to bypass the 5/24 rule. Do you think I could pass with 17 / 6 ?

  9. Mike says:

    Not every branch is equipped with a BRM? Does one need to turn over lots of rocks to find one?

  10. Dave says:

    Do I need to have a legit business account to have access to the BRM?

  11. Amanda says:

    My BRM said offer is for 80K bonus for Business Ink. How do I tell/show him it is for 100k and not 80K?

  12. VL says:

    Quick question in case if anybody can advise.

    I am under 5/24 (if do not count business cards) and was going to the branch soon for Ink+, but only in hope to get 100K bonus vs 80K. Plus in the past the BRM helped me to get approved right on the spot (after some grilling).. So, should I go for paper app, or online app?

    Would like to get the card sooner in case if online would be the same for under 5/24, but would not want to waste the attempt if paper app would be better. Any advise?

    Thank you!

    • NoonRadar says:

      Isn’t the branch vs online difference around 1K ($100 cash) when factoring the annual fee?

      Whatever the difference is, factor its redemption value for you – your in branch grilling experience you had in the past via BRM (can you elaborate?) – delayed card (if it matters to you) = it would be easier for you to decide.

      • VL says:

        – As far as I know after 3/12 annual fee is no longer waived regardless if you are in branch or online.. so the difference is still 20K.
        – When I said online I did not mean applying online myself, I meant allowing BRM apply for me via their computer system (did that before). For me there are few bonuses in that: (a) building the relationships, (b) potentially higher bonus; (c) ability to ask BRM to call CS in case if anything is needed

        As I mentioned in one of my previous posts that helped me last time. BRM suggested we call credit department on the spot. They talked to me for 30 min and approved on the spot. Also it was right before 3/12, so I was going for 80K only. Called the BRM few weeks later and asked if I can be matched to 100K. He called CS himself, and got me extra 20K.

        So, for me there is definitely a value in going to the branch vs applying online myself.

        My question is should I ask him to do a paper app for me, or via their computer system. Most of my cards are business, so counting personal ones I am under 5/24.

        Thank you all for your advise. Hopefully my DP will be useful for somebody too. I did not explain the whole story here because I shared it in the past in other article comments. Sorry if somebody read it twice.

        • NoonRadar says:

          Hadn’t kept up to date with the annual fee. If that is the case and you’re going via BRM anyhow, I’d advise to have the BRM do paper and don’t offer to call recon. If BRM says to call them, suggest you wait to see what they respond with and take it from there.

          There’s no advantages to calling them right away, except getting the card/decision a few days earlier. Unless there’s a pressing need for you to do so I’d say forego the grilling and wait for a chance to be approved without recon.

          If you’re not certain, or not comfortable, asking the BRM on the stop as you do the application, try calling them (Chase reps are trained to not say much via email) and suggest you do the app via paper but you’re in no hurry and would like to wait to see what the response if before calling the lending department and if they decline you’d reach out to BRM to see about you guys recon-ing. If/when BRM says OK then go do the apps.

          P.S. Someone on Reddit said their BRM wasn’t familiar with Ink Preferred being 100K in branch. Is your BRM aware, do the paper applications state this? If so they maybe have different (older vs newer) paper apps?

          • VL says:

            Insetead of replying I created a new comment. Sorry.. posting a reply, so you get a notification. Thanks!

  13. VL says:

    Thanks a lot for your prompt response!

    The only reason I am considering calling right away is that I have some spending to put on it, which otherwise would not go towards any bonus.. Also last time my BRM mentioned that they will want to talk to me anyway… and it will take good 2 weeks before they get to my application.
    But you are probably right – it is better to get it later then not getting the card at all.

    My BRM suggested paper app today over the phone without me even asking, but since I was not aware of any benefits of that (at the time) I said we should probably do app via their system, and call to get approved quickly (as we did last time).. he said we can do either way. Now as I am aware of potential differences I may let him do a paper one.

    The only question is (as TooClose2Say mentioned) the benefits of paper app may be questionable in my case since I am under 5/24 anyway… and I never was able to get business card without talking to somebody (not neceserely a recon – usually they just wanted to talk to me before approving). And this time around I expect it to be the same as I have opened 3 business cards with Chase within last 8 months, and I expect them wandering why do I need one more (especially that I do have Ink+ in my portfolio).

    I guess waiting would not hurt anyway… right?

    Regarding bonus offer 100K vs 80K I do not know yet, and can update you tomorrow after my meeting.
    Will also pay attention to the fixed rate vs variable.

    Thank you again!

    • NoonRadar says:

      To me the 20K difference would always > getting the card 2 weeks earlier for the forthcoming spend. Unless it’s really hard for you to MS (or MS + real spend) the bonus spend or somehow you think the electronic application to regular lending (as opposed to paper to special lending) has > chances of approval due to your situation, which I don’t see why, absent DPs or some reasoning to suggest so.

      Also the thing with calling…bus apps usually/often seem to end up being reviewed by a human (as opposed to the comp approving you), so why necessarily give that human a reason to deny you via the phone conversation? If you call the rep aft denial (or long delay to avoid 2nd hard pull) your call will likely improve the chances of your approval, if you call them right aft applying your call has the potential to have a negative effect on your app.

      How did you get 3 Chase bus cards in 8 months for 1 business? Did you have any indication you’d get them or just went for it? Good for you! You should be the one giving advice then. 🙂

      Good luck! We’ll wait to hear how it goes.

      • VL says:

        Thank you.
        I went with the paper app as my BRM has also suggested (who BTW was great – really amazing guy).

        Here are a few DPs (confirmed by the BRM) which could be useful for others

        1) The paper app he submits is considered by a different lending department, and 5/24 rule is not applied in this case.

        2) Chase business cards may be counted towards 5/24 for principal company officers who are used as a warrant for the account… although they are not reported to credit agencies. I asked again (as according to many DPs people say they do not). He said they are. So most likely YMMV – may be some recon reps just look at the report, and some look at all your accounts. I tend to trust him, as on all other subjects he showed himself as very knowledgeable. So, if that is the case then I would be over 5/24 and he said himself “it is good that we applied via paper app, or you would be denied”.

        3) Paper application I signed specifically showed 2 offers Preferred for 100K and Cash for $500. So, it is definitely there. I assume if your BRM does not know about it, and you convince him/her to still do the app you will see it.

        4) My SP income is nowhere close to 6 digits, and we needed to list it on the app, but no comments were made that this could disqualify me for 100K. Again, we will see.

        Now, to answer your question about business cards. When I started last summer without knowing much about this game it was a pure luck that I started applying for business cards first as I got some mailed in offers.
        So, I have following business cards: SW RR as SP, Ink + as SP, also have Ink Preferred (for a real small corp), and now I applied for Ink Preferred as SP. Will see how it works out…

        Now a thought crossed my mind… So may be somebody can answer my question. I know that Amex offers (once a lifetime) are attached to your SSN (even if you are getting them for a legitimate company with EIN), so you can not get it twice even if you apply for 2 different companies with 2 different EINs…. For some reason, I thought it is not the case with Chase, but now I am starting questioning myself. Is the fact that I already have Ink Preferred for a real corp with EIN but with me listed as an owner and officer disqualifies me for another bonus when I applied as a SP? If it does then my today’s exercise will be only useful for the purpose of building good relationships with BRM at my branch…. I hope it is not. When my SP profile was pulled it did not show any personal cards or a card issued for my company. Can anybody advise? May be Will would be able to reply?

        Thanks a lot, and hope this info would help to others.

        Will, thanks a lot for your forum!!!

          • VL says:

            Thank you for the article link. I posted my comment to that article about my info on Amex.

            I guess if I get this Ink card I will have another DP for us… but for now I will keep my hopes low… my existing card I have under the business EIN is already linked to my business online account profile (which has mixture of EIN and SP cards), and the new one (if I get it under SP) will probably automatically be linked to it as well.. so I assume most likely I will not get the bonus anyway…

            Should have researched beforehand… but at least I got some DPs for all of us.

        • NoonRadar says:

          As to getting the same bus card bonus within 24 months for a different business, on the threat that Will linked people seem to report contradictory DPs, but being that Chase is usually pretty good with hard coding things properly, I’m suspecting the different results are based on specific scenarios. Maybe they have programmed their computers to make an exception and allow the 2nd bonus when certain criteria are met beyond it just being a different business name & tax id/ssn.

          Here’s hoping you do get the bonuses for both. If not, they’re still nice cards to MS the 5x deals at OD/OM and if that is the case maybe you can eventually product change the Ink Preferred to Ink. Not sure how soon after account opening (and bonus) you can product change these.

          I was also looking at the pricing terms and offer details for both cards and didn’t notice and specific language there about this.

          “Paper application I signed specifically showed 2 offers Preferred for 100K and Cash for $500.”

          So both offers were mentioned on the same paper application? Did the app seem to have any more/different fields than the online application?

          • VL says:

            Thank you.

            The app was pretty basic. Same fields as online. It had 2 checkboxes on top – one for Ink Preferred w 100K bonus, another for Ink Cash w $500 bonus. So, I technically could have picked the other one if I would have learned what I know now earlier (re same card for 2 business or sp within 24 months.) Ink Cash had no annual fee and $3K spending requirement.

            I will see first if I get the card 🙂
            If not I may not push too hard for it as the annual fee is not waived anymore. If I get it I will probably still go for $5K spending and see if I get the bonus, as both my applications for the same card went quite different ways (paper vs old Chase system, they also updated the system between those 2 events, Corp vs SP)… so may be there is a chance.

            As to MS I have never done that. It is much harder now a days … and my knowledge about this subject is very limited. If you could point me to any good resources at least I could see what options are available these days I would appreciate that.

            Thank you,

          • VL says:

            Replying here to notify you. It worked great. Got the card, got the bonus…

            Posted the detailed DP here:

        • NoonRadar says:

          Regarding your MS question below… looks like I’m not able to reply to your comment further down (due to tree-ing down) but some of the best up to date MS data points are here:

          It is always YMMV based on location, if you’re in a densely populated city like NYC or San Francisco you might have to drive outside that perimeter for any appreciable MS levels.

          Online you can try GiftCardMall (GCM) and GiftCards .com(GC), there’s dedicated threads about them at FlyerTalk. GCM is a bit more profitable, but has $15K/last 30 days limit, seems to ban people really fast, seems random a that, also no tracking on delivery unless you pay for it, orders do go missing periodically. They’re obvious gift card merchants and show as such on your credit card transactions though.

        • Chao says:

          Would like to get an update on your case. Did they finally pull your credit and then make a decision.

          Mine is still in waiting now. Thanks if you have any updates

          • VL says:

            In short: Good News.

            More details: my app was held due to the different questions, and I was not in rush to resolve them… Recently, I asked my BRM about this specific question (second bonus for SP vs EIN). He called Chase CS, and got very clear answer – the second bonus is permitted in that case. Being a signing officer for EIN which received the bonus does not disqualify that person to receive it again under his own SSN applying as SP or as a signing officer for another corporation with another EIN.

            I figured it’s worth the try, cleared the pending questions, and now we will see if I get the card, and if so if I get the bonus… would be able to update in a couple of months in that case.

            Wish me luck.

          • VL says:

            Replying here to notify you. It worked great. Got the card, got the bonus…

            To get the card I just needed the usual reallocation of the credit limit… they did not want to extend more credit without financial documents… and I did not need more credit. I just asked to move some limits from my other Chase Business cards opened under the same SP name.

            Posted the detailed DP here:

  14. Richie says:

    Thanks for this article William!
    If it’s been *under* 90 days since my last credit card run, if I apply through the BRM for the Chase Ink Preferred, will this be overlooked? Or is it better if I wait until the full 90 days are up?

  15. Ashley says:

    I made an appointment with my regular branch contact, figuring I would see if I was preapproved for the Ink Cash Card with 30k bonus. She called me back and said if I waited until the next day and met with their roaming BRM I would get a larger bonus (great customer service!), so she made an appointment for me. I didn’t read the details here about BRMs having the option to do either online or paper applications, so I wasn’t paying attention as he asked me questions. I am not sure if he wrote them on paper or online, but he definitely submitted it online. This surprised me so said I thought it was a paper app and he said yes, the page I signed (which was exactly the same as online ones I’d done before) was the paper. So I guess I will wait and see. He said it usually takes about a week, but he typically calls and gets an answer in 15 minutes if I wanted to wait. After the “don’t call” comments I’ve heard, I decided against that.

    I am just around 5/24 (4 plus a stupid Sears card that I thought was a Sears-only charge, but apparently I was signing up for 2 cards, in-store charge and MC, and possibly a 6th card which may not be recognized yet: an AmEx Blue Cash Preferred that I got approved for last Friday before I realized I wanted this card…I thought it was cash, not points since all language in their advertising is 5% back not 5x points). If I don’t get it, can he resubmit as a paper application? He had no idea what 5/24 was when I mentioned it to him (after it seemed like it was not a paper app). If not, at least I got my Sapphire Reserve with 100k bonus before that ended! I will post when I get the results

    • VL says:

      When you signed the paper was it the full application with your details, and all questions/answers he asked you during the process?

      In my past experience if the application is submitted via Chase computer system what you sign is only disclosures etc (I was not even shown the application itself)…, but this time what I signed looked actually exactly like a one page paper application with all info: income, requested limit, expected spending, address, etc…

      My BRM was very aware of 5/24 and said that it is good that we did a paper app… although I do not know if he faxed it over to that special lending department or just scanned it in.

      Also (do not know for sure), but in my opinion, the fact that he offered you to call them in 15 min is not a good sign. We did call in in the past for apps submitted via Chase online system, but this time around it was not even an option as he had to submit it differently.

      If you get denied due to 5/24 IMHO nothing should prevent you from waiting a month, and coming back and applying for the same card, but this time around making sure he actually prints out the app and faxes it over. The only bad thing which may happen is an extra hard pull on your CR, but it is not such a big deal if your credit is great, and you are going to slow down with apps due to 5/24 anyway.

      Good luck.

      • Ashley says:

        Thanks for the quick response! I am pretty sure it was just a signature page with some generic pre-printed “this is what the offer is” information, not my personal info. I am right at 5 if you count the stupid Sears card that I accidentally signed up for (thinking it was in-store only), so maybe my banker could argue for me on that basis if I don’t get approved. At least I only have to wait until next week to find out.

  16. Darv says:

    Well the person above was not kidding when he said 5-7 business days before the automated system picks up. I applied through this method and am still waiting for them to review my application. My BRM submitted the paper application. She didn’t think I would have trouble getting approved. I told her I was beyond 5/24, she said that would not matter. I applied a week ago.

    It seems this specialty lending group hasn’t gotten around to mine yet. No problem, but hard to adjust from the usual application process.

    Thanks, DoC, and others, for helping me have a shot at the Ink Preferred 100k.

      • Darv says:

        This is becoming quite the saga. They finally pulled my credit and later in the day it changed from 2-week to 7-10 day notice. Called in, denied, first recon was also denied. First analyst just wasn’t eager to help. Second person very nice, willing to hear me out, talked for maybe 15 minutes about different things on my report. Recommended for approval pending final review. Hopefully success is near. I wouldn’t recommend this route for newbies or people without legitimate businesses.

        I was asked both about my business situation and several items related to my personal credit activity.

        Contrary to person commenting above, both analysts insisted there was no way to exchange credit lines across personal and business (reducing/reallocating). This is within the Specialty Lending group.

        It always seems to come down to somebody willing to help. I’m glad I got somebody who helped me. I really want this card.

        • NoonRadar says:

          “I was asked both about my business situation and several items related to my personal credit activity.”

          Mind elaborating on this, especially on the credit activity?

          • Darv says:

            Update: denied (status reverted back to 7-10 (after being revised again to 2 weeks)).

            Yes, was asked about many new accounts opened.

            Bummer, but the guy I just spoke to was actually really nice, started out saying maybe there’s an option, but then he pored over my report with me on the line…he said there’s no way we can do it.

            These guys are tough. I could have asked for a decision immediately after the recommendation for approval but figured her stamp would get me through, did not want to test another line of questioning.

            It was not rejected based on 5/24, all three analysts I spoke to were not concerned about any particular number. First reason for denial I got was approval for CSP within past 30 days, other reason was length of time business established (mine is over three years). I didn’t buy those reasons so that’s when I got the second analyst who basically told me the real reason was all the recent accounts. I explained those away pretty well, she asked to pull another bureau, I said TU, she came back with the recommendation for approval.

            Last thing I tried was asking for reallocation one more time from a personal line, he said cannot do personal to business. So that seems firm.

            Good luck folks.

          • Darv says:

            I thought I would include here my stats. I’m 40+/24, scores about 775 across all bureaus. I keep reports almost clear of credit card debt for utilization (less than 1k). EX and EQ pounded by inquiries. I play the cash and rewards games. So not surprising I was denied here, not at all, but surely disappointed.

  17. Mirguy says:

    Does anyone know what questions they ask when they call you/grill you? Thanks in advance.

  18. Moe says:

    My BRM told me that a written application won’t help because it would go to the same place. He told me he would immediately call specialist and explain why I need the card for my business (I’m not sure what I would answer to the rep about that… after Iv’e opened 7 cards recently). He said its a 50% chance….

  19. Jake Hong says:

    If we’re pre-approved for business credit card offers when signing up for the business account, does it matter whether we ask the BRM to put in a paper application or online application?

    I thought pre-approved overrides anything.

    • Yes pre-approval should overrride it.

      • Jake Hong says:

        Thanks! Are there any data points out there on how long it takes or the criteria of being pre-approved?

          • Darv says:

            I’m opening a biz checking in a few weeks. I’ll be checking for business pre-approvals. I had one banker tell me there aren’t pre-approvals for biz cards, but I’m not confident that banker knew what she was talking about.

          • Darv says:

            I opened biz checking with coupon today. There was a pre-approval for both Ink cards as part of my checking opening process. I took the 80k preferred offer, was immediately approved. I asked BRM about helping me get matched to 100k offer, she didn’t think she could help. I’ll work on that. Great day at the Chase branch!

  20. Jack says:

    Well whoop ti doo. Im in North Dakota which has no branches that Im aware of. Yawn, as usual, much to do about nothing!

  21. Max J says:

    New DP from BRM:
    “I wanted to shoot you a quick message as I just received word the card was declined. You’ll be receiving a letter in the mail but it seems the paper application is not a way around the number of open credit lines.. You’ll see the reasons when you get the letter but that’s what I’ve gathered from my inquiries.”

    • Chao says:

      So it means the paper application will not bypass the 5/24 anymore? They still haven’t looked into my application although it’s almost 2 weeks.

  22. QA says:

    I followed the steps on the page and bypassed the 5/24 rule right away. I had a total checking and a saving account with Chase for about 6 months and had Freedom Unlimited for about half year as well. It granted me 15,000 CL with TU 708 EQ 709. And I live in NYC fyi.

  23. moey says:

    any recent success in getting approved for business cards being over 5/24? just spoke to BRM and told me that it doesn’t bypass 5/24 anymore.

  24. Dima says:

    I am in MA, got a contact info for a BRM on the other coast who submitted a paper app for me. I have not gotten a response, but I have logged into my account and see a new card there now. Applied 2 weeks ago. I’m way past 5/24, but don’t have any new Chase cards in the past year+.

  25. Victor says:

    Was fortunate enough to apply and be approved for the INK Preferred via BRM for the 100k bonus and first year AF waived.

    Applied on 5/19
    BRM notified of approval by phone on 6/5
    Received the card on 6/9

  26. JG says:

    RE Victor
    I applied for the Ink Preferred via BRM and was approved – working on the 5K spend & was told 100K bonus – but didn’t hear anything about the annual fee being waived………..?

    • Victor says:

      I didn’t even know about the waived fee. I found out about it only because the BRM mentioned it. Applied in Florida if that helps.

      • JG says:

        Thanks! I’ll ask about it.

        • Victor says:

          Hey JG, so I either made a mistake or Chase changed their mind 🙂

          I was charged the $95 exactly 1 month after opening the account. Unfortunately I threw away all the paperwork so I cannot confirm whether I was ever right. But I could have sworn the BRM mentioned it, and then pointed to the top of the contract page which showed 1st year waived.

          Calling up Chase wasn’t very helpful, the suggested filing a complaint. I have no intentions of doing that – 100k w/ $95 is still an excellent deal.

  27. Stammers says:

    DP: During my travels to TX, I opened up a Chase business checking however I did not recieve any pre-approval offers for the ink card. I finally found a BRM which was willing to submit a 100k Ink CC applications through online (my BRM wasnt aware that there was a paper application available). The system generated a responded that I will get letter within the mail 7-10 days of final decision (I thought this was pre-decline letter based on my research). On Day 4, when I logged onto my business checking account, I saw the CC was added to my user profile as I was approved. I checked my report prior to applying and my count was right at 5/24 with a Amazon Chase CC opened 10 months ago. No business CC were opened prior as my INK CC would be my very first business card. Thanks Dr Credit

  28. Darv says:

    I imagine this still works, it’s just that so few people are likely to be in a position to take advantage. You first need have the courage to walk into a Chase branch and open a business account. You then need to do so with a BRM. You also need to have a BRM that both A) knows about this and B) is willing to do it for you. On top of all this, your application needs to pass scrutiny of the specialty lending group in order to get approved. If you have many cards opened in the past few months, they are not going to approve you. It does technically bypass 5/24. But in practice, these underwriters are not going to hand out the card if you’ve been pounding it, and that’s really the only reason to use this method.

    I managed to convince one underwriter to recommend my application for approval, which is proof that it bypasses 5/24. However my application was such that it required a second underwriter to approve, which I was told was one of her fellow underwriters, not even a supervisor. I spoke to 3-4 different underwriters, hung up after a few times of getting the same ones. I bet it’s a group of like 10 people. Even after I was denied after the recommendation for approval, I HUCA until I got the person who recommended me for approval and asked her if there was anything that could be done. She said she could send it through again with her recommendation for approval, but that given what had happened, very unlikely it would be approved (and she hinted that the same people or one of them would likely review it again).

    I would recommend this route to anyone who is over 5/24 but has not been hitting it hard recently. In my situation I had just gotten the CSP in the same month, so I was 1/30 with Chase. And I was trying to overcome many recent accounts posted to my credit profile.

    So yes, this does still work, but it will only be suitable for a very limited amount of people. And among those people, probably so few will do it because they won’t want to open a business account, find a competent and willing BRM, and be willing to face scrutiny of their business.

    Source: I did all this. And by the way, I got my CIP through a pre-approval in another branch about 45 days later.

    • NinjaX says:

      this is a great reminder. but did you have to open a business account? thot u didnt need to for the BRM to help. maybe its still good practice tho.

  29. Bob says:

    So this bypasses 5/24 for business cards only? Probably should include in title unless there was something about personal cards I missed.

    FWIW. My wife and I were each able to bypass 5/24 last year on Chase Business Ink cards because when we opened up a business checking account for $500 bonus (as sole props) we were told upon opening by the banker that we were “prequalified” for the business Ink ($80k points). Not sure if that still works too. If I remember right, applying in bank also waived the annual fee for the first year. If we did it online later, then it wouldn’t have been waived.

    • Added business cards to the title, thought it was clear with the BRM but I guess a lot of people don’t know what that is so thanks for the suggestions.

      • Bob says:

        Thanks. Was aware what BRM meant but was REALLY hoping for a loophole that maybe he can push personal applications through as well by using a paper application. But you confirmed that isn’t the case, so thank you.

        Through the same BRM that opened my Business Ink Card, I did try to get him to open a Sapphire Reserve card a few months months later but was unfortunately declined due to 5/24. This wasn’t a paper application though. I asked if I was prequalified for any offers, he said no but do you want to give it a try anyways. I said, sure why not but knew I was unlikely to get approved.

    • Dave says:

      Were the approvals while they allowed CPC to bypass the 5/24 rule or after they shut that down.

  30. NinjaX says:

    its good we are revisiting this again, but before people start wasting EXP HP, its important to look at the DPs again. I see successes, but its not at the level im willing to roll the dice. for some its worth it, but it looks too YMMV and even worse for those lol/24.

    whenever i read about approvals, i dont see exact stats. do lol/24 REALLY get approved? i consider lol/24 anywhere in the 25+ range. i have a feeling people dont know what “way over 5/24” really means. 10/24 is not lol/24 nor is it “way over”.

    remember, this BRM route just potentially removes one issue. that doesnt mean the analysts will look at your crap and be ok with lol/24.

    • NinjaX says:

      just to clarify, 30/24 to 50/24 is certainly a higher level of lol/24 but you dont need to be at those levels to give an analyst a heart attack.

  31. Darv says:

    You can call reconsideration for the paper apps but you will be transferred there from regular recon number. You can recon the calls yourself. If you have a supportive BRM, they can recon it for you. They get updates as to the status of your application. It will likely be more effective if they advocate for you. That said, if they can’t get you approved, you can call in yourself and ask for reconsideration.

    Use of this method may only be worth it for another week. The 100k/50k elevated offers expire either August 26th or 27th. Your application date is the day your BRM sends it in, not when they pull your credit (which will be a week or more later).

  32. VL says:

    Few comments just to share my DPs
    a) BRM does get updates on the status, but in both my cases he was not able to speak on my behalf (although he wanted to help). Every time he said that back office people needed to speak to me directly, although he was able to get me a direct call back number (so the people I called knew exactly why I am calling back)
    b) My BRM populated the application on the PC, but then printed it, I signed it and then he faxed it (or may be just scanned it and uploaded into the special lending dep system). Either way he knew exactly what he was doing, as he mentioned 5/24 and special lending department himself, knew that this department does not automatically disqualify for that. In short, it does not have to be handwritten, but needs to be faxed… and it is true that it takes longer.
    c) I do remember seeing the end of 100K offer some time at the end of August (although was not able to confirm that later)… so if you are going for it do it now.

    • NinjaX says:

      hey VL, saw some DPs about BRM asking for all these documents to be present if you are LLC. like EIN doc and tax forms and etc. maybe sol prop is the way to go if you want to avoid that, but was curious about your situation.

      • VL says:

        In my case the BRM never asked for anything like that, but I almost sure he knew exactly why I am there and applying for the card. In my opinion he is a very smart guy, he was very familiar with the lingo (5/24, cards trifecta, bonuses, etc…). With him I & my SO both applied as SPs though, but I am sure he would not ask for it even if I would be applying under my small corps.

        I did get the same Ink Pref card for one of my corps as well (8 months ago), but that was with regular business CSR in the branch, via their usual computer system (no paper application). I did have my corp papers, but she did not seem interested in them at all. She just needed EIN number.

        I guess YMMV in that case, but I have not seen many comments regarding BRMs giving customers a hard time.

        Also, if you have an EIN for your LLC you probably should be able to provide everything they ask (even if they ask), but if your LLC is under your SSN anyway I personally do not see any benefits declaring the business as LLC instead of SP. YOu will not be able to get the card & the bonus twice under the same SSN anyway. When (and I posted about it before) you can get it twice if you apply ones under your corp EIN and later under your SSN as SP even if you declared yourself (with your SSN) as an officer and the owner of the corp. That is exactly what I did… I was assured by BRM, and another CSR he called in front of me that I am still eligible for the bonus under my own SSN as SP, and sure thing – I got it with no questions asked. So if you have a legitimate corp with EIN I would say go for it, get the bonus for each EIN you have and your own SSN as SP… especially that this (paper app route) does not depend on 5/24 (other factors may still play against you anyway).

        Aslo I have seen some points, and do remember myself, that the app with bonus of 100K had an end date. I remember it is being the end of August, but do not remember the exact date… should have taken the picture of the application, but I did not. Some people stated it is 8/26-8/27, which makes sense – Chase usually ends it on Sundays.

        Good luck. Glad if I was able to help in any way

  33. Darv says:

    Positive datapoint: approved for Ink Cash with paper app. Way over 5/24 and several recent accounts.

    • NinjaX says:

      hey darv, i assume ur the same guy from all the prior posts. so you got IC with 40+/24? thats def in the lol/24 realm. holy crap. good for you. and you also got the CIP with preapproval right? man… sounds like you got a business checking as well? was that required for the paper app? doesnt sound like it is, but just wanted clarity for ur DP.

      • Darv says:

        A business checking with Chase is required for a pre-approval for business cards. And I suspect it had a lot to do with me getting approved through the paper app. First time I did a paper app, underwriting was concerned that I did not have a previous relationship with them and they could only go on personal record. There were other issues at the time, including being 1/30, but this specialty lending group doesn’t seem to have any hard rules. I did not talk to them this time. Also to clarify, you don’t need to go into a branch for paper applications. I did both of mine remotely.

        Work all the angles, folks. Where there is a will, there seems to be a way.

        • NinjaX says:

          really appreciate it Darv. thank you.

        • Darv says:

          Let me clarify on the pre-approval experience. A Chase banker cannot see a pre-approval for you unless you have a business “profile.” If you have any type of business account, you will have a business profile. Either a checking account or an existing credit card lets them see you with a business profile. From there, they can check if you have pre-approvals. This is based on what I’ve been told and what I see when watching their screens.

          Also, last time I was in branch, my banker had to toggle between my personal and business profiles to check for pre-approvals between personal cards and business cards. So if you stop in and they say you don’t have a business pre-approval, I would ask them if they’ve checked under your business profile.

          I’ve been in branch five times in the past four months and seen a range of knowledge among Chase bankers. Some are awesome and willing to do whatever it takes, others are content to go with what they know, which can be quite limited.

    • VG says:

      Hey Darv – Any chance you could provide the contact info for the BRM you went through? Not sure if they are able to do applications remotely (without meeting with me), but I don’t live near a Chase branch and was hoping to get in touch with a BRM via email and try to get them to submit it that way.

      • Darv says:

        Hi there, VG. I don’t think I want to get into that. I saw what happened with that BRM on Reddit and this is a good guy, don’t want to get him mixed up into mass referrals. Since no private messaging here and I don’t want to post my email, not a wise move I think.

        I thought about posting the city he’s located in, but even that might get his info posted.

        If you have a business you can describe, even if it’s just selling stuff on eBay from time to time, I think you’ll find a Chase BRM that is willing to work with you. It may take some time to identify one, or a good one. I worked with two and they were both really nice and accommodating, but this second person I worked with was excellent. I was referred to him from a small-town Chase branch after working with a banker there a few times (stopping in for pre-approvals).

        There’s not much to the paper app process for the BRMs. From what I’ve gathered, all they do is include a cover sheet with the paper app, and it’s on that cover sheet that they can make notes or suggestions, like “this guy has a business checking” or whatever they think will help get an approval, and after that they can call in on your behalf to see how things are going, request re-allocation of credit. That’s what mine said he would do if I were declined, but my second app was approved without that.

        My BRM did want to talk to me over the phone, and we discussed why I was applying for the card, and he set up secure messaging with me. So he did make an effort to know me aside from simply sending emails.

        I think this loophole is going to be closed before long. It seems like it’s getting fairly popular. I was way, way over 5/24, like 12/6, and they approved me. I think for my Ink Preferred paper app, the reason I got declined was not too many accounts, but simply one Chase account within 30 days–they kept repeating that. So this loophole is pretty sweet.

        Sorry about that…I just don’t want to get involved with publishing somebody’s info or putting them in that position.

        • VG says:

          I get it, no worries. I definitely agree you shouldn’t just post his contact info online here for everyone to see.

          If you feel like sharing his info with just me though, let me know. My email is (burner email – I can email you back from my real one after).

          If not, no big deal. Thanks!

  34. NinjaX says:

    Wanted to see where people are getting the DP about the CIP bonus deadline being 8/27? Did i miss the memo?

  35. Bob says:

    My local area BRM just told me that he’s not aware the 100k CIP bonus has any expiration date. He’s not available to meet with me and do a paper app until Monday, so I set an appointment with him then. Personally I’m doubtful this is true, but it seems this guy is the only BRM in the area for multiple branches, so we’ll see about this…will report back

    • NinjaX says:

      please do. keep us posted. you cant deny the pamphlet. its right there. i am sure hes wrong.

    • VL says:

      There is a slight chance of that being true… my BRM called the back office per my request and they told him that there is no set date for the offer to expire… so may be it is just a human incompetence, but could be that the offer is extended.

      If you are under 5/24 and have Ink/Plus in the family I would recommend referring yourself for 80K + 20K, but if not then I would go through your BRM. Also, if he promises you 100K bonus and you do not get one he may get you the extra 20K as a courtesy.

      So, if no guaranteed 100K through a referral/system, it is always better to have a BRM involved in my opinion.

      Good luck

      • Bob says:

        I’m lol/24 so need BRM paper application. Will report back, if the 100k is still around that’s fantastic news.

        • JT says:

          Any developments?

          • Bob says:

            My local BRM has not been impressive so far. In fact, he’s been downright horrible. Completely unreachable via phone or email since he was supposed to have been back from his “vacation.” Does this guy even work? Not feeling confident about his claim that the 100k doesn’t have an expiration…

          • Bob says:

            Well basically reported back by others as well. 100k CIBP is alive and well. Found a BRM to put in the paper app for me, now the waiting begins.

  36. Michael says:

    Can confirm that paper application for INK Preferred is still working if you have a business banking account with Chase. 2 weeks ago, I went into NYC branch and said I wanted to open INK card. I had just applied for Red Aviator prior week and was way over 5/24, so I explained that to them and they had me sit with their Business Relationship Manager to see if he could push it through. They filled out my INK application on the computer, submitted it, and then called in for a decision in which I was told I was denied because of 5/24 haha. The BRM then said they could do a paper application and that should work. I was skeptical but said we could try it, so he filled out a paper app and submitted it. A week later I was approved. The big caveat here is that we have a business banking account for the last year with Chase so that may have been a factor but regardless I am happy that we got approved for INK.

  37. Rich says:

    Paper app is essential for approval past 5/24. I applied in branch with a BRM (I have a “business”), but he did the online application first. Of course I called and was given 7-10 days. Drove right back to the branch to have him submit a paper application. Thought it would cause issues as duplicate application, etc. I was called today for an approval from the paper app department. Card is already showing up in my business login. Interestingly, he called earlier today for a denial (the online app) and was surprised that I was approved. I am 25+/24, with several inquiries in the last few months. I’m wondering if I can do this again in like 6 months with the CIC.

    • VG says:

      Any chance you could provide the contact info for the BRM you went through? Not sure if they are able to do applications remotely (without meeting with me), but I don’t live near a Chase branch and was hoping to get in touch with a BRM via email and try to get them to submit it that way.

  38. james says:

    for the paper application is it better to use EIN or SSN?

  39. roy says:

    Hi, I have read through the comments and some people report success using the paper application, where they had to wait a certain period for a response, and there are also people reporting failures using the same method.

    If all these people were over 5/24, then what can be the difference here? I called my BRM and have a business checking account and was over 5/24. I asked him to submit a paper application but he said that applying through the computer was the same so I got denied because of too many accounts opened. Should I ask him to submit a paper application? Anyone in the same situation as me get try a second time? Thank you

    • Darv says:

      Your banker did it wrong. If you haven’t opened a Chase credit card in the past 30 days, go ahead and try again but this time make sure your BRM does an actual paper application. If you do, good chance you’ll be approved.

  40. Anonymous says:

    I can confirm that this still works as of a few days ago. I am way above 5 24 and was very skeptical of this. I had a BRM submit a paper app (needs to be paper, my BRM even told me a different department reviews paper). Bottom line is if you need to bypass 5 24 this is a viable option.

    • Anonymous says:

      In case I was not clear because I did not outright say it. I was approved. This method works if done correctly and if you naturally qualify for the card.

  41. Joe says:

    Do you need to have an existing business relationship with Chase to meet with a BRM?

  42. gus says:

    is it true that the 100k offer is no longer available in branch? Or do BRM’s still have access to it? I saw a screenshot somewhere that had that offer expire Nov 12 2017

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