Posted by William Charles on May 26, 2018
Credit Card Offers

Published on May 26th, 2018 | by William Charles


Bypassing Chase 5/24 Using A BRM & A Paper Application (For Business Cards) [Working On Business Unlimited]

Update 4: Reposting as business relationship manager bankers now have access to a paper app for the Chase Ink Business Unlimited card ($500 bonus) and this also works to bypass 5/24.

Update 3: Definitely working. Make sure a paper application is actually submitted.

Update 2: Despite a lot of denied data points in the comments, it seems like this is still working for some people. It’s possible that some BRM didn’t submit a paper application properly or at all (they receive your paper applicaiton and then enter it in online rather than submitting the paper application itself) and that might have been the cause of the application failures. Here are some recent datapoints: 1, 2, 3, The first comment does a good job explaining what I am talking about as well.

Update: It looks like this is no longer working to bypass 5/24 with a lot of denied data points in the comments.

This was originally a password protected post, but it looks like the same reader posted on /r/churning as well.

A reader (who wants to name anonymous, but is well over 5/24) shared a way they were able to bypass the Chase 5/24 rule on business card applications. The method is pretty simple, basically it seems that if your application is put through by a business relationship manager (BRM) they go through to a special business lending department and they do not deny based on 5/24. It should also be noted that it seems like the BRM needs to put in a paper application to bypass 5/24, this was specifically mentioned by the BRM. If it’s put in online it goes through the normal application process. 

Not all branches have a business relationship manager, technically you’re also supposed to have business revenue of $500,000+ as well. That being said, readers have been able to get BRM’s to put their applications in even if they don’t meet this requirement.

It gets even better though, because if a BRM does put your application in then you’re also eligible for these bonuses:

Being a Chase Private Client used to by pass the 5/24 rule, but Chase removed this ability so I imagine this work around won’t last for ever. Let’s not ruin this for each other, try to be discreet in applying for these cards and please don’t waste time with the BRM or cause a scene if it’s not possible. As always, please share your data points and experiences in the comments below.

A few other things to note:

  • You can’t call regular reconsideration on these applications as only the specialized lending group can handle these applications

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I had a BRM put in an application for me a few months ago and was rejected. I had not asked the reason because I assumed it 5/24 which I am well over

In the reddit thread he claims he opened a business checking account last month with a $500 bonus coupon? I know the public deal is long expired and I haven’t heard of any targeted offers like that?… We sure this guy isn’t a troll, similar to the guy who made everyone waste pulls by claiming Marriott Personal didn’t count under 5/24?


Far from a troll my friend. The $500 Chase Performance Business Checking coupons expired 3/31/17 🙂

They constantly send out the $500 bonus offers in the mail.

probably not lately, since 3/31 expiration at least, since they are nowhere to be found on ebay. Been waiting to pick one up.

I don’t know if the guy trolls in other ways, but I also received (and redeemed) a targeted $500 bonus coupon from Chase last month. While the money hasn’t yet posted, I’ve hit my minimum of six transactions.

This doesn’t mean too much for 99% of us. Keep on churning hard folks.

I can attest to this. I had my business manager put in a paper application for me after being denied for the I k Plus last fall (well over 5/24). In my case, we had to do extra paperwork and it still took 3 weeks and several phone calls from my banker to get it pushed through. It can be done if you have a good relationship with a persistent/relentless banker!

well were you CPC? how many chase CC did you have with them and how many recent apps? i guess we will know soon enough if this method works because it will be blown out the water soon now its on doc…

I get my fico score 8 experian from Amex and my credit union. There is a difference of 30 points between the two. Why would that be.

Also Amex gives a history of the score. My score is stuck at 799 for last 12 months. Why wouldn’t it go down or up? It had gone down to 796 a few months when I opened a few apps, then it went back to 799 and stuck there.

Is this a troll? Nothing to do with Chase…
Anyways it has to do with what agency they are pulling and if it is a true FICO or FAKO that your CU is giving you a score of. I would search through DoC’s page and find out where you can get your true FICO from, for all 3 agencies. This will give you a better picture of what your actual score should be.

prob not a troll but just lost…

I think this is how I got approved over 5/24 for an Ink+ in Sept 2016 as well.

wat was ur situation? like what were the stats and why did you use BRM at the time?

I was like 30/24 (not exact but well over 5/24 is the point). I was taking advantage of the business checking promotion bonus and the BRM asked me if I wanted to apply for the Ink+. I said I already had one and wouldn’t be able to get it anyways due to 5/24. He said, “What 5/24?” Long story short, I was approved after being grilled on the phone about my business.

thank you for the DP. looks like lots of people got approved via BRM without even knowing it. meaning, looks like this method will die soon… haha.

I have been aware of this work around for a while and was kind of hoping it was not posted as Chase will now surely notice a surge in business applications and will respond accordingly when they are faced with having to staff up the very small Specialty Lending credit card group (the irony is that they could just read this blog or reddit but instead they only notice things after it costs them lots of money).
In any event, the only reason this method bypasses 5/24 is that all BRM banking applications are manually submitted (by internal secure e-mail or fax) and processed by the Specialty Lending underwriting group (this group does not just do business credit though). BRM’s only get paid by submitting apps using this method compared to CPC and other branch bankers who get paid only on computer submitted apps. So here is why the 5/24 workaround for business cards works. Specialty Lending handles all BRM revolving credit card apps as well as all JPM (JP Morgan) Credit Cards (such as the Ritz Card and the JP Morgan Reserve (Private Bank Clients only)). Simply put their products have never been subject to 5/24 hence they do have the rule in their playbook. When Specialty Lending started getting INK apps over the past it has been business as usual for them and they therefore do not consider 5/24 in their analysis.

Be advised that these applications, once submitted by a business lending banker (BRM) will not report any status usually for 5-7 business days via the normal toll free numbers. The cat is out of the bag and the clock is now ticking. Good luck.

So are all cards not under 5/24 managed by specialty lending?

If so, I would be worried those cards soon will given they will be slammed from this news. Thoughts?

Also I want the Ritz card but have no use for it for a no the year lol

No, it’s not a converse relationship. Only a handful of applications (from specific clients) go through Specialty Lending. A couple other important points is that Specialty Lending, despite not using the 5/24 rule, often has stricter lending requirements than the other consumer underwriting groups. Meaning that people on the fringe in terms of underwriting may very well get denied (but not due to 5/24) by Specialty Lending where they otherwise may have been approved by other consumer lending department criteria (ie they could get the IHG card from a different underwriting group despite being over 5.24). The reason other cards (IHG, Hyatt, ect) are not subject to 5/24 has more to do with the contracts with those travel partners as well as specific goals for the product. The fact that some products are not subject to 5/24 is deliberate and specific. In fact, it could be argued that the reason that BRM submitted business applications are not subject to 5/24 is deliberate as well. After all, a business doing millions of transactions with Chase is too valuable to pass up an even potentially more lucrative credit card relationship with. I imagine the way Chase fixes this loophole will be to strictly enforce and restrict BRM’s such that they can only submit business applications that come from Commercial coded banking accounts/clients. Chase does not have any better way to classify business banking relationships (only large commercial or not). Restricting BRM card apps to large commercial banking clients would most definitely raise the bar a bit higher as only a subset of BRM clients are classified as large commercial (very generally speaking large commercial means multi million plus in transactions per year). This probably was the intent anyway. Interestingly, there was a similar issue that was fixed in almost the identical manner when the JP Morgan Reserve Credit Card came out last year (which by the way is submitted by the exact same means, secure e-mail or fax, as BRM INK Business apps). For those who don’t know, JPMR is strictly offered only to Private Banking clients (ie around $10M+ in assets with JPM). When the JPMR first was released there were CPC and even regular banking reps who were able to submit JPMR apps for just about anyone via secure e-mail. There was even a leaked application that end customers faxed directly in to Chase! The fix for JPMR was to… Read more »

This was awesome. Thank you! Meanwhile a data point: I just spoke to a BRM (about my legitimate business) who essentially told me he only uses the paper form (I’m referencing other comments) when he has to make a specific request, e.g. for a higher than usual credit line. Otherwise he just uses online system too

My guess is that BRM either isn’t aware they can do this or aren’t convinced they should to do it for you.

This is a very interesting and informative comment. Thank you. Do you happen to work at/with Chase? Anyway, I’ve been trying to track down a way to apply for the JPMR card, since I missed the fax leak by a day. Do you have any insight on how this could be done? Would my BRM be able to submit an application if I filled it out (I’m not CPC or PBC).

If you know something but don’t want to post publicly, feel free to email me: just ping here that you replied because I don’t usually check that email.

What is the best way to reach out to the Specialty Lending Group?
For Credit Line shifting.
Feel free to email: Zalcforums_AT_gmail_DOT_com


BRM don’t get paid on a per app basis, apps go into a bucket they are evaluated on. They do get credit for electronic and paper apps.

This cat won’t die, the flood of people asking BRM’s to do paper app will have consequences. Such as they will state paper apps are to be only taken from clients with revenues in excess of $x,xxx,xxx or something. Paper apps are 5x the amount of work most BRM won’t be willing to do this for Johny and his eBay businesses anyways.

That’s great there’s a way to bypass the 5/24 rule. Do you think I could pass with 17 / 6 ?

Not every branch is equipped with a BRM? Does one need to turn over lots of rocks to find one?

how do you find one?

Do I need to have a legit business account to have access to the BRM?

My BRM said offer is for 80K bonus for Business Ink. How do I tell/show him it is for 100k and not 80K?

Quick question in case if anybody can advise.

I am under 5/24 (if do not count business cards) and was going to the branch soon for Ink+, but only in hope to get 100K bonus vs 80K. Plus in the past the BRM helped me to get approved right on the spot (after some grilling).. So, should I go for paper app, or online app?

Would like to get the card sooner in case if online would be the same for under 5/24, but would not want to waste the attempt if paper app would be better. Any advise?

Thank you!

Isn’t the branch vs online difference around 1K ($100 cash) when factoring the annual fee?

Whatever the difference is, factor its redemption value for you – your in branch grilling experience you had in the past via BRM (can you elaborate?) – delayed card (if it matters to you) = it would be easier for you to decide.

– As far as I know after 3/12 annual fee is no longer waived regardless if you are in branch or online.. so the difference is still 20K.
– When I said online I did not mean applying online myself, I meant allowing BRM apply for me via their computer system (did that before). For me there are few bonuses in that: (a) building the relationships, (b) potentially higher bonus; (c) ability to ask BRM to call CS in case if anything is needed

As I mentioned in one of my previous posts that helped me last time. BRM suggested we call credit department on the spot. They talked to me for 30 min and approved on the spot. Also it was right before 3/12, so I was going for 80K only. Called the BRM few weeks later and asked if I can be matched to 100K. He called CS himself, and got me extra 20K.

So, for me there is definitely a value in going to the branch vs applying online myself.

My question is should I ask him to do a paper app for me, or via their computer system. Most of my cards are business, so counting personal ones I am under 5/24.

Thank you all for your advise. Hopefully my DP will be useful for somebody too. I did not explain the whole story here because I shared it in the past in other article comments. Sorry if somebody read it twice.

Hadn’t kept up to date with the annual fee. If that is the case and you’re going via BRM anyhow, I’d advise to have the BRM do paper and don’t offer to call recon. If BRM says to call them, suggest you wait to see what they respond with and take it from there.

There’s no advantages to calling them right away, except getting the card/decision a few days earlier. Unless there’s a pressing need for you to do so I’d say forego the grilling and wait for a chance to be approved without recon.

If you’re not certain, or not comfortable, asking the BRM on the stop as you do the application, try calling them (Chase reps are trained to not say much via email) and suggest you do the app via paper but you’re in no hurry and would like to wait to see what the response if before calling the lending department and if they decline you’d reach out to BRM to see about you guys recon-ing. If/when BRM says OK then go do the apps.

P.S. Someone on Reddit said their BRM wasn’t familiar with Ink Preferred being 100K in branch. Is your BRM aware, do the paper applications state this? If so they maybe have different (older vs newer) paper apps?

Insetead of replying I created a new comment. Sorry.. posting a reply, so you get a notification. Thanks!

Thanks a lot for your prompt response!

The only reason I am considering calling right away is that I have some spending to put on it, which otherwise would not go towards any bonus.. Also last time my BRM mentioned that they will want to talk to me anyway… and it will take good 2 weeks before they get to my application.
But you are probably right – it is better to get it later then not getting the card at all.

My BRM suggested paper app today over the phone without me even asking, but since I was not aware of any benefits of that (at the time) I said we should probably do app via their system, and call to get approved quickly (as we did last time).. he said we can do either way. Now as I am aware of potential differences I may let him do a paper one.

The only question is (as TooClose2Say mentioned) the benefits of paper app may be questionable in my case since I am under 5/24 anyway… and I never was able to get business card without talking to somebody (not neceserely a recon – usually they just wanted to talk to me before approving). And this time around I expect it to be the same as I have opened 3 business cards with Chase within last 8 months, and I expect them wandering why do I need one more (especially that I do have Ink+ in my portfolio).

I guess waiting would not hurt anyway… right?

Regarding bonus offer 100K vs 80K I do not know yet, and can update you tomorrow after my meeting.
Will also pay attention to the fixed rate vs variable.

Thank you again!

To me the 20K difference would always > getting the card 2 weeks earlier for the forthcoming spend. Unless it’s really hard for you to MS (or MS + real spend) the bonus spend or somehow you think the electronic application to regular lending (as opposed to paper to special lending) has > chances of approval due to your situation, which I don’t see why, absent DPs or some reasoning to suggest so.

Also the thing with calling…bus apps usually/often seem to end up being reviewed by a human (as opposed to the comp approving you), so why necessarily give that human a reason to deny you via the phone conversation? If you call the rep aft denial (or long delay to avoid 2nd hard pull) your call will likely improve the chances of your approval, if you call them right aft applying your call has the potential to have a negative effect on your app.

How did you get 3 Chase bus cards in 8 months for 1 business? Did you have any indication you’d get them or just went for it? Good for you! You should be the one giving advice then. 🙂

Good luck! We’ll wait to hear how it goes.

Thank you. I went with the paper app as my BRM has also suggested (who BTW was great – really amazing guy). Here are a few DPs (confirmed by the BRM) which could be useful for others 1) The paper app he submits is considered by a different lending department, and 5/24 rule is not applied in this case. 2) Chase business cards may be counted towards 5/24 for principal company officers who are used as a warrant for the account… although they are not reported to credit agencies. I asked again (as according to many DPs people say they do not). He said they are. So most likely YMMV – may be some recon reps just look at the report, and some look at all your accounts. I tend to trust him, as on all other subjects he showed himself as very knowledgeable. So, if that is the case then I would be over 5/24 and he said himself “it is good that we applied via paper app, or you would be denied”. 3) Paper application I signed specifically showed 2 offers Preferred for 100K and Cash for $500. So, it is definitely there. I assume if your BRM does not know about it, and you convince him/her to still do the app you will see it. 4) My SP income is nowhere close to 6 digits, and we needed to list it on the app, but no comments were made that this could disqualify me for 100K. Again, we will see. Now, to answer your question about business cards. When I started last summer without knowing much about this game it was a pure luck that I started applying for business cards first as I got some mailed in offers. So, I have following business cards: SW RR as SP, Ink + as SP, also have Ink Preferred (for a real small corp), and now I applied for Ink Preferred as SP. Will see how it works out… Now a thought crossed my mind… So may be somebody can answer my question. I know that Amex offers (once a lifetime) are attached to your SSN (even if you are getting them for a legitimate company with EIN), so you can not get it twice even if you apply for 2 different companies with 2 different EINs…. For some reason, I thought it is not the case with Chase,… Read more »

As to getting the same bus card bonus within 24 months for a different business, on the threat that Will linked people seem to report contradictory DPs, but being that Chase is usually pretty good with hard coding things properly, I’m suspecting the different results are based on specific scenarios. Maybe they have programmed their computers to make an exception and allow the 2nd bonus when certain criteria are met beyond it just being a different business name & tax id/ssn.

Here’s hoping you do get the bonuses for both. If not, they’re still nice cards to MS the 5x deals at OD/OM and if that is the case maybe you can eventually product change the Ink Preferred to Ink. Not sure how soon after account opening (and bonus) you can product change these.

I was also looking at the pricing terms and offer details for both cards and didn’t notice and specific language there about this.

“Paper application I signed specifically showed 2 offers Preferred for 100K and Cash for $500.”

So both offers were mentioned on the same paper application? Did the app seem to have any more/different fields than the online application?

Thank you.

The app was pretty basic. Same fields as online. It had 2 checkboxes on top – one for Ink Preferred w 100K bonus, another for Ink Cash w $500 bonus. So, I technically could have picked the other one if I would have learned what I know now earlier (re same card for 2 business or sp within 24 months.) Ink Cash had no annual fee and $3K spending requirement.

I will see first if I get the card 🙂
If not I may not push too hard for it as the annual fee is not waived anymore. If I get it I will probably still go for $5K spending and see if I get the bonus, as both my applications for the same card went quite different ways (paper vs old Chase system, they also updated the system between those 2 events, Corp vs SP)… so may be there is a chance.

As to MS I have never done that. It is much harder now a days … and my knowledge about this subject is very limited. If you could point me to any good resources at least I could see what options are available these days I would appreciate that.

Thank you,

Replying here to notify you. It worked great. Got the card, got the bonus…

Posted the detailed DP here:

Regarding your MS question below… looks like I’m not able to reply to your comment further down (due to tree-ing down) but some of the best up to date MS data points are here:

It is always YMMV based on location, if you’re in a densely populated city like NYC or San Francisco you might have to drive outside that perimeter for any appreciable MS levels.

Online you can try GiftCardMall (GCM) and GiftCards .com(GC), there’s dedicated threads about them at FlyerTalk. GCM is a bit more profitable, but has $15K/last 30 days limit, seems to ban people really fast, seems random a that, also no tracking on delivery unless you pay for it, orders do go missing periodically. They’re obvious gift card merchants and show as such on your credit card transactions though.

Thank you!

Would like to get an update on your case. Did they finally pull your credit and then make a decision.

Mine is still in waiting now. Thanks if you have any updates

In short: Good News.

More details: my app was held due to the different questions, and I was not in rush to resolve them… Recently, I asked my BRM about this specific question (second bonus for SP vs EIN). He called Chase CS, and got very clear answer – the second bonus is permitted in that case. Being a signing officer for EIN which received the bonus does not disqualify that person to receive it again under his own SSN applying as SP or as a signing officer for another corporation with another EIN.

I figured it’s worth the try, cleared the pending questions, and now we will see if I get the card, and if so if I get the bonus… would be able to update in a couple of months in that case.

Wish me luck.

Replying here to notify you. It worked great. Got the card, got the bonus…

To get the card I just needed the usual reallocation of the credit limit… they did not want to extend more credit without financial documents… and I did not need more credit. I just asked to move some limits from my other Chase Business cards opened under the same SP name.

Posted the detailed DP here:

Thanks for this article William!
If it’s been *under* 90 days since my last credit card run, if I apply through the BRM for the Chase Ink Preferred, will this be overlooked? Or is it better if I wait until the full 90 days are up?

I made an appointment with my regular branch contact, figuring I would see if I was preapproved for the Ink Cash Card with 30k bonus. She called me back and said if I waited until the next day and met with their roaming BRM I would get a larger bonus (great customer service!), so she made an appointment for me. I didn’t read the details here about BRMs having the option to do either online or paper applications, so I wasn’t paying attention as he asked me questions. I am not sure if he wrote them on paper or online, but he definitely submitted it online. This surprised me so said I thought it was a paper app and he said yes, the page I signed (which was exactly the same as online ones I’d done before) was the paper. So I guess I will wait and see. He said it usually takes about a week, but he typically calls and gets an answer in 15 minutes if I wanted to wait. After the “don’t call” comments I’ve heard, I decided against that.

I am just around 5/24 (4 plus a stupid Sears card that I thought was a Sears-only charge, but apparently I was signing up for 2 cards, in-store charge and MC, and possibly a 6th card which may not be recognized yet: an AmEx Blue Cash Preferred that I got approved for last Friday before I realized I wanted this card…I thought it was cash, not points since all language in their advertising is 5% back not 5x points). If I don’t get it, can he resubmit as a paper application? He had no idea what 5/24 was when I mentioned it to him (after it seemed like it was not a paper app). If not, at least I got my Sapphire Reserve with 100k bonus before that ended! I will post when I get the results

When you signed the paper was it the full application with your details, and all questions/answers he asked you during the process?

In my past experience if the application is submitted via Chase computer system what you sign is only disclosures etc (I was not even shown the application itself)…, but this time what I signed looked actually exactly like a one page paper application with all info: income, requested limit, expected spending, address, etc…

My BRM was very aware of 5/24 and said that it is good that we did a paper app… although I do not know if he faxed it over to that special lending department or just scanned it in.

Also (do not know for sure), but in my opinion, the fact that he offered you to call them in 15 min is not a good sign. We did call in in the past for apps submitted via Chase online system, but this time around it was not even an option as he had to submit it differently.

If you get denied due to 5/24 IMHO nothing should prevent you from waiting a month, and coming back and applying for the same card, but this time around making sure he actually prints out the app and faxes it over. The only bad thing which may happen is an extra hard pull on your CR, but it is not such a big deal if your credit is great, and you are going to slow down with apps due to 5/24 anyway.

Good luck.

Thanks for the quick response! I am pretty sure it was just a signature page with some generic pre-printed “this is what the offer is” information, not my personal info. I am right at 5 if you count the stupid Sears card that I accidentally signed up for (thinking it was in-store only), so maybe my banker could argue for me on that basis if I don’t get approved. At least I only have to wait until next week to find out.

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