Virgin Atlantic Devalues Delta Partner Redemptions [Update]

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• I searched all U.S. Delta hubs nonstop to AMS and CDG and found no first class Delta 50k options for October or November. VA withholding award seats? Delta has plenty of first class award seats to these destinations.

• I did some looking around, and DTW-AMS was 30k in economy again. Hard to get data on First Class due to limited routes, but definitely a big positive for DTW based flyers, as the nonstop options on Delta 1 are plentiful from Detroit.

• Well, I feared this. I picked up points for a one way Delta flight to Australia that was canceled because of the pandemic. Now the cost to make that trip again has more than doubled.

• I've said it before and it bears repeating going forward...Airlines miles are a sucker's game. If you ever listen to quarterly earnings calls for airlines, you'll hear how executives talk about the "value" of their miles programs and the additional revenue it brings in. It can't be true simultaneously that both airlines and fliers are getting good value out of them. I'll trust the opinion on the executives.

  Unless you're redeeming sign-up bonuses and when the Sun and Venus and Earth are perfectly aligned, redeeming miles on typical coach travel has crappy redemption rates (1-1.6%). Most people are better off with cash back cards in the 2%+ range.

  • I average $6,000 - $8,000 in actual value (redeemed and flown) every year with under $80k of credit card spend. Tell me how that is not a good deal for me AND clearly it's good for the airlines. I redeem all the time when Sun and Venus and Earth are not perfectly aligned, and even the earth, moon and sun are not aligned.

  • Sucker’s game? Coach? You obviously don’t understand the game. I rarely ever fly coach. I take appr. 6 international trips per year all in business or first class. I get 4 cents + per mile.
    Sure many will respond they would never spend that much on business class tickets, but then that’s the point. I travel for practically free in style.
    Besides, most my points are not accumulated at 2% or 2 miles. Taking advantage of bonus categories you can do a lot better than a meager 2%. Much better in many cases. And accumulate buckets of miles.
    But please keep preaching your mantra. If people listen then I have less competition for that front of the plane seat.
    Thanks and have fun with your 2%.

    • Right, "bonus" categories are for people who don't make a lot of money because they have the sort of time to calculate rotating categories. My guess is collecting miles is for people who could never afford business class trips on their own.

      People who actually have money value simplicity and their personal time above else. For us, there's a simple 2% or 2.5%. No rotating categories, no tracking which partner airlines is better, or churning and all that crap. A single card, in use, all the time for every purchase. That's it.

      You go play your game with travelling in style. My guess is you spent less time cultivating a career and honing your resume versus accumulating miles.

      • CW, keep talking. You continue to show the community here your true character.
        As for a career, I retired at a young age and have been enjoying my life so you’re right....I have no interest in honing a career. People who learn how to play the games can do this. I am happy you find pleasure in working. Keep paying those taxes.
        Enjoy your 2% card. Please wave hello to me as you pass me on your way to coach. We Po Folks like to feel important.

      • So what the fuck are you on this site for?!? Not just on the site but spending time commenting. You really think any of us give a shit that you have money.

        Jesus just when I think I’ve seen it all, the internet presents me with a level 12 retard.

        Congrats

      • Wow - so people who 'play the airline game' all have no money and no career that they've worked on? I'm sorry, but could you get more rude and disrespectful with your false generalizations? Just because you don't want to spend the time to play that game doesn't mean that those who do are only doing it because they have 'no money or no career'. I've enjoyed many biz class flights for free using points - points I've worked hard (and smart) to collect. And I've done it all while maintaining a successful career. You just sound really elitist.

      • @CW - I’ve got to ask you, if you like having 1 card in your wallet that earns 2%, why are you wasting your time reading this website?

  • Airlines make money off everyday consumers with their loyalty programs, not churners.

    When I’m flying first class in ANA from NYC to Japan non stop for a few bucks in fees, while never having spent a dollar on an ANA flight, I’m making out pretty bigly. Like 20k cash value bigly. Your analysis is very basic and very wrong...

    • How often do you manage that? Like once every five years?

      Normal people who don't churn aren't going to see those redemptions.

      • It’s literally what I said, they don’t make money off chunrners, common folks sure.

        And I get that off ALL THE TIME. I’ve probably redeemed over a few million miles in the past 5 years

        You want to paint a narrative, knock yourself out. It’s the internet and for the most part none of us give much of a shit about each other’s opinions. Just understand your opinion is wrong.

        • Your last sentence, take your own advice brother.

        • What users like Andy won't admit is that churning works fine the first time through major issuers, then gets WAY harder. If you start with Chase, then move to Amex, and Citi, you will be at LOL/24 when you get back to Chase, and be locked out of Amex SUBS for 7 years (or whatever Amex decides life means).

          You will buy yourself more time if you can spend 15k in 3 months to get business SUBs, but that is still temporary.

          Most people would be better off going to a Bank of America cashback setup when they move jobs and have some 401k money to get into a preferred rewards tier.

  • I agree with you, but obviously 1.6% (value per mile) x 2 (miles per dollar) = 3.2% return...which is better than 2%. But only if you're able to achieve that value, of course. And only if you're ever able to find a flight to apply it to.

    Still, I prefer high-earning cash-back cards to any airline card. It's unfortunate that to use miles accumulated from flying, one sometimes has to get a sign-up bonus from an airline card just to be able to get an overpriced award.

  • I think this is obvious about everything related to banks. You hit them on the margins, everything they do generates a profit for themselves. That's kind of the whole point of churning is to take advantage of sign ups and disregard the paltry crumbs they usually hand out, especially sky pesos etc

  • While your last paragraph is totally correct, your first sentence is not. Miles are a great deal *if* you use them for "bang for the buck" redemptions like international first class, which takes a combination of skill, patience, and flexibility that most people don't have. And they are still a pretty good deal if you are collecting them as SUBs from churning.

• Actually, for some economy flights, it's now a better deal. Dansdeals has a posting on this that goes into some detail, and isn't as negative as Thrifty Traveler. Round trip JFK-TLV 3/1-3/6 is 70K with VA points, 180K with Delta miles. Before the "devaluation," it would have been 80K with VA points.

• Dumping to Hilton

  • So it begins - VS used to be Delta One sweet spot - wonder if ANA/VS devaluation is coming as well.

    I transferred VS to HH from cancelled COVID trip - I only wished I had waited an extra week before transfering MR for VS would have saved me about 30K MR in 2019.

    I'm thinking travel will need to hit rock bottom, and then industry be even more desperate for loyalty programs (or SUBs get super generous) to offer a modicum of value again .

• It looks like some routes end up being less points if flying economy. Big load for luxury travellers but potential boon for econ travellers.

  • I did some research and it's less for flights under 1500 miles in the US, but marginally less. Sometimes VA miles are not as good a value for domestic when you compare the VA chart to the Delta chart, as when the Delta prices get expensive, VA doesn't offer those flights at all. And when they are cheap, Delta is usually the better (Speaking from a DTW home hub perspective)

    You are generally correct though. And, VA Economy is Regular Delta Economy, not Basic Economy, so a bonus always there as well.

  • Massive dump truck of a load for business award tickets

• Well, saves the inquiry and slot I was seriously considering using for the BOA Virgin Atlantic World Elite MasterCard for that 25K annual spend sweet spot.

  • Yes, glad I didn't apply yet!!

  • Same here

• There used to be Delta Business class from Honolulu to Tokyo for just 35,000 miles VA miles one way. It looks they'll be doubled when these flights resume (if they resume).

  • Hey are you from HI too? I was searching for HNL to HND round trip flights. Last month basically all of April was open and now I can't find anything, one way or round trip. Has delta suspended flights?

• this sucks. i had booked a flight for me and my wife pre-pandemic then had to cancel due to covid, and i have all these miles on virgin atlantic that became much less valuable.

  • Also same, except without the wife part

    • Same here, other than the wife part and the trip part.

      Why did I post this?

      • just the wife part no miles or flights

    • Same, except with the wife part. Had ATL-EZE booked at 90k.

      • Same here

        • Joining the chorus--I canceled 2 roundtrip tickets to Paris, now stuck with 200K VS miles.

          According to TPG joint venture flights will not follow the new chart, but I wonder if there will be an increase in fees.