Posted by William Charles on July 15, 2017
Credit Cards

Published on July 15th, 2017 | by William Charles

175

Chase Sends Out Survey Regarding Possible Changes To Transferring Chase UR Points For 1.5¢ Travel Redemptions

Reddit user msd2179 completed a Chase Customer Panel survey regarding the ability to transfer Chase Ultimate Rewards points to the Chase Sapphire Reserve to take advantage of the 1.5¢ per point value you get when redeeming for travel through the Chase travel portal. They wanted to know how users would feel about the following options:

  1. “When you combine the Ultimate Rewards points on eligible Chase Cards they would retain their original redemption value – that is, when transferred the points would retain the redemption value of the product they were initially earned on. For example you would not earn a travel redemption bonus if your transfer from a no fee card to a Fee card.”
  2. “You can only combine Ultimate Reward points between no-annual fee cards or between annual fee cards. You cannot combine Ultimate Rewards points between a no-annual fee card and an annual fee card.”
  3. “You can combine Ultimate Rewards points on eligible Chase cards at a 3:2 conversion ratio. For example if you would like to transfer 15,000 points from your Freedom Unlimited card to your Sapphire Reserve account, your Sapphire Reserve would be credited with 10,000 points (a 3:2 ratio). The transferred points would be granted the redemption value and options of the account to which they are transferred into.”

All three of these options are terrible and significantly devalue the current value you can get from the Chase Freedom Unlimited (1.5x Chase UR on all purchases) and the Chase Freedom (5x Chase UR on rotating categories). If they made these changes I assume they would also affect your ability to transfer the points to Chase’s travel partners as well. Obviously this is just a preliminary survey to see how customers would feel about these changes, but it isn’t good to see Chase even considering these types of negative changes.

If you received this survey, make sure you complete it so Chase knows how terrible these changes would be for cardholders. Might as well transfer over any points you have just in case as well.

Small Update: A number of months back, we heard a rumor from an insider that this kind of change was being looked at.



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175 Comments on "Chase Sends Out Survey Regarding Possible Changes To Transferring Chase UR Points For 1.5¢ Travel Redemptions"

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Nick
Nick

Maybe I’m missing something but what kind of response do they expect?

I feel usually with things like this they have one positive aspect to somewhat outweigh the negative, but these are all negative changes.

artgriego
artgriego

They want to find out if enough people are clueless so they can pass these changes without worrying about backlash.

Elmer
Elmer

+1

Matt
Matt

This would be terrible for anyone that actually earns points by spending. It completely destroys the value of the Freedom Unlimited at 3:2, where it becomes a 1x card. and that’s not even the worst option!

Sam
Sam

I got it, and it was a tricky survey. If you weren’t paying attention you wouldn’t realize that that’s what they were asking. They surrounded all of the changes with other “great features.” Those features were things the cards already have (including the incredible redemption of points with Amazon for 80 cents on the dollar when you only get 100 cents on the dollar when you redeem UR points for cash…).

But yeah, if you weren’t paying attention you wouldn’t realize that Chase was proposing anything new. Very misleading. But I caught it and expressed my displeasure and likelihood to look elsewhere for credit cards.

Vincent
Vincent

Yeah I’m pretty sure there were no other changes (at least not that I noticed) except for the UR changes.

Dave
Dave

This is terrible, but honestly, kind of makes sense for the bank. They don’t want people getting 5 UR from free Freedom and transferring to CSR and redeeming for 7.5c. I would be severely disappointed if this happened. It would also pretty make me drop the CFU immediately.

bob
bob

exactly, i’d either PC it to a CF and get 10/3 when transferring to my INK+.

Or PC my CFU to a CSP, and my INK+ to a Ink Cash and get 10/3 on more stuff that way.

ugh. dammit.

PAUL
PAUL

If they want me to cancel the Sapphire Reserve, this is how to do it. The 1.5 is a sufficient sweet spot that I’ll eat the $450.

They’d better grandfather it or face major revolt.

MoreSun
MoreSun

#Truth

Superchurn

Agreed

On the plus side, if Chase pulls this BS, I won’t have to worry about 5/24 anymore

Peter
Peter

I would cancel all annual fee Chase cards and switch to 2% Fidelity or 2.5% USAA Limitless.

Implementing this change would destroy the great program Chase has built.

Peter
Peter

To add, if Chase retains the current reward program I have no intention to cancel any of my Chase cards. But a devaluation or change as outlined in this post will cause me to switch lenders.

Vic
Vic

TL;DR:

Chase is considering killing Ultimate Rewards, want to know how to kill it.

Vic
Vic

Jokes aside, if they really decides to separate UR into two types, Freedom, FU, and Ink Cash would be extremely devalued, and people who still haven’t downgrade Ink Plus would be VERY happy.

Alex
Alex

What value would the ink plus retain? Maybe I missed it but I didn’t see anything indicating this. I just got my first annual fee from ink plus and am thinking about downgrading to a second ink cash.

Vic
Vic

The three (awful) choices are all trying to differentiate UR cards with AF and without AF.

If any one of it becomes true, the points earn on Ink+ will become more valuable than the points earned on Ink Cash.

MoreSun
MoreSun

Wow Chase. Wow. I’ve been thrilled with Chase & loved using my CSR/Freedom combo and tell my friends all about it. Heck, my parents are enjoying it so much they’re looking at switching their business spending to chase from Amex. I asked them about this & they said they’d give up their CSR, had planned on keeping it. I’d give mine up to (had also planned on keeping it).

bY
bY

Follow

Chucks
Chucks

The type of person who even knows UR can be transferred between cards is kind of Chase’s nightmare. Consistent 1.5cent redemptions are simply unsustainable for 5x categories.

Earn and burn my friends.

CM

So, if 1.5 CFU points would equal 1 CSR point… Does it mean I can transfer 100k CSR points onto CFU, and get 150k points, redeemable for 1.5k cash? Because that’d be great!

Rudy
Rudy

Dude you are badly smart on this, LOL

Nonono
Nonono

It’s 3:2 for any transfer, so you end up with 66.6k fu’s.

Russ
Russ

Attn Chase: Amex already tried having two classes of one rewards currency. Go ask then how it worked out. Really, go ask, we’ll wait….

MoreSun
MoreSun

ROFL

Ender
Ender

You are talking about plenti?

Dan
Dan

Same with two tiers of TY points. confusing garbage

Vic
Vic

Two tiers of same type of currency must be one of the stupidest design; so confusing that even churning veterans sometimes don’t understand.

TYP is even worse, unclear expiration rule, two tiers between bank account / credit card. It’s a total mess

Elmer
Elmer

Chase already has two tiers of UR. Ask anyone that doesn’t have a CSP, CSR or Ink+.
This would make it even worse for everyone and much harder for average customers to understand the UR program.

NinjaX
NinjaX

RIP UR…

max
max

Would instantly cancel all my chase cards and close my bank account with them

Richard
Richard

Yeah big deal. Who are you gonna turn to next? Why do you think they give out big bank bonuses and credit cards? Trying to take aim at the millionaire spenders that are loyal amexers that don’t care about UR as much

Sean
Sean

Well, there goes my plan to get the CSR for my annual 12k insurance spend…
I’ll stick to my 2% cash from Cap 1– they even forgive the AF when I ask.

Mist Soalar
Mist Soalar

Chase will rebrand FU to Freedom Limited or Limited Freedom.
Ink Cash should be Ink “Cash Only”.
FUFU.

Max
Max

Following

Wash
Wash

Thanks for the heads up! Although such changes usually take a little while to get implemented, I transferred my points to CSR immediately!

UPS guy
UPS guy

Gives me more of a reason to keep MSing on my SPG card.

JR
JR

So I have 25K points in Chase Freedom and 100K points in Chase Sapphire Reserve(I will be downgrading or cancel the Chase Sapphire Reserve when 1 year is up)

So what is the best..to transfer from Freedom to CSR or CSR to Freedom? Where should I be keeping my points

MoreSun
MoreSun

CSR. Why the heck would you keep them on the lower-level card? (Unless you’re worried Chase will cancel cash redemptions?)

JR
JR

So if transfer all my UR from Freedom to CSR but what if I downgrade my CSR with no fee (after completion of 1 year as do not want to be charged $450) ..will the value of the CSR points remain same as of Chase Freedom…

V
V

“will the value of the CSR points remain same as of Chase Freedom…”

Yes, if you convert your CSR to Freedom, the points value will be that of a Freedom card. I think all non-AF Chase cards give 1x points redemption value.

P
P

Option 2 is interesting. Why would the points on a no annual fee card earning UR be called UR if they can’t be transferred? They’re just regular cash back unless you can transfer them.

mh
mh

You can use UR points from a Freedom in the travel portal at 1 cent. The transferable cards give the extra .25 & .50 point.

mh
mh

And transferability.

P
P

Which is useless. Just pay with credit card and earn points and use a cash back if it’s going to be 1c per point.

mh
mh

They must have really took it up the a$$ with the CSR giveaway, and the lack of renewals.

Max
Max

Lack of renewals? I see the CSR everywhere in my everyday life. A LOT of people got that card; churners and savvy consumers are likely a very small chunk of them.

I hypothesize that Chase has struck gold on this, because most of them will renew and will pay the 450 AF every year. I think Chase might be wanting to just condition people to thinking that a 450 AF card with some cool features (eg lounge access, 300 credit, GE credit) is not worth the trouble of cancelling.

Think about it: the phone companies have worked into conditioning people to thinking that paying 50-70 each month for a service that costs cents is OK (it’s not OK). Apple has convinced people to pay 600-800 every two years for phones which kinda suck and are priced 4x as much as their manufacturing cost (as opposed to the vast majority of hardware which has thin margins). I think Chase has dropped another conditioning on people: that paying a 450 AF for a fancy credit card is also something they will be willing to continue. I don’t think most people will cancel. Just the savvy ones.

mh
mh

Most of the sheep who got the CSR did so for the 100,000 points. They also were 76% more likely to cash out the points as a statement credit.

They’re the ones Chase can’t recapture.

Dan
Dan

I will not be cancelling. The annual fee is 150, not 450. The benefits are worth it to me.

sirtheta

The lack of renewals on a card that hasn’t been out for a year, yet? I find that extremely unlikely.

Gadget
Gadget

I am sure they are running the numbers… based on stats of those that have already closed out & cashed out, and predicting about how many more people they will lose at the year mark when the new $450 AF charge appears. They likely know they need some changes, because I think they underestimated the amount of people that weren’t afraid of taking on an upfront $450 annual fee card for mega rewards… hence why they couldn’t even keep the metal cards in stock, and made public statements about the overwhelming initial response, then slashing the 100K signup bonus to 50K after a couple months.

If it’s not profitable, they have to make it that way. It’s business – it’s their obligation to make the company money. Also, notice how they are narrowing the 5X rewards on the FU… only one category this quarter.

I didn’t jump on the CSR bandwagon, but I did get the CSP recently and will not be paying the AF next year (but I will ask if they will waive it), but I am also just taking flat cash value on my points. I don’t travel enough to make it worth it, and when I do, I can usually find a better price “on the outside” than the 25% increase (CSP) of the UR mall price. To each their own.

Tavosa
Tavosa

Resturants and movie theaters on Freedom this quarter…. not sure your ” only one category this quarter” except that the ability to max out 5% or even 10% of the $1500 is insanely hard/low unless you see a movie with the family at $12 a pop twice a week all quarter lol.

Gadget
Gadget

My mistake. I only go to the movies but maybe once or twice a year. I think I selectively forgot about that category. 5% back in points isn’t compelling enough to get me off the couch.

farsighted99
farsighted99

I love my CSR card. Wouldn’t cancel a card that costs me a net of $150 and gives me 1.5 on air travel. I like the Freedom card for the 5X offers. Have an INK Plus card for the 5X offers. I also have a few other Chase cards that give different offers.

Would be disappointed in them changing the “sharing” benefits. Perhaps we should all transfer our points now from the low end cards, eh?

Elmer
Elmer

Why haven’t you already transferred them?

Dan
Dan

Horrible change. Will kill the UR family. There will be no reason to keep their cards, including CSR.

Tavosa
Tavosa

This (POSSIBLE) devaluation is only hurting the Freedom, Freedom Unlimited, and Ink Cash…. not sure why everyone is saying they would not keep the essentially $150 fee card for 3% back on travel and restaurants? Still get 1.5ccp value in travel redemption and transfer 1:1 to partners… I will definitely keep it. Mostly this will kill me for my 5% back on then ink on huge cellphone, cable, internet bill netting me about 30-40k points a year for doing nothing. At that rate i can sell for $95 fee on Ink Preferred for 3% on same thing, but with a lot less enjoyment :(….. also office supply stores 5 real UR points goes bye bye with the Ink Cash if this happens, which SUCKS…. God I wish I had been approved back in the day for the Ink Plus.

It isn’t possible to convert to Ink Plus these days right? I mean they intentionally killed the product as I recall?

oomps
oomps

If you don’t regularly pay for travel or eat out a ridiculous amount, then the redemption increase/transfer that you get for $150 isn’t worth it.

Most of our non-signup URs are from 3xfreedom cards an an fu. This would definitely put the Reserve below the Prestige for me as far as retention.

Deb
Deb

I will agree with that. Not being a traveler makes even the $150 af seem too steep. We more than make up for it with the travel redemption rate and the other travel benefits. I couldn’t believe so many people were claiming to have cashed out the sign up bonus until I realized they must not be travelers.

Lrdx
Lrdx

There are no-fee cards that give 3% on travel and at restaurants (OK, separate cards, but still). CSR alone worth it’s $150 net fee if you spend an annual $10000 in that two categories, or you value URs above 1.5c. I don’t so I’m not keeping CSR without other Chase cards.

Freedom gives you an extra 4x1500x5-1500×3 (as usually restaurants is one of the quarterly categories) = 25500 URs if you can max them out. Instead of cashing it out, transferring $255 to CSR gives you an extra $127.5 value. Now you need only $1500 travel+restaurant spend for CSR to be net positive. Maxing out one quarter reduces the needed restaurant+travel spending to break even by $2500 (by $1000 if it’s a restaurant quarter).

Add Ink Cash with it’s mobile and internet to CSR. I spend ~$120 / month on both, transferring to CSR reduces the breakeven point by $2400.

CFU is probably already not worth keeping: It’s only 2.25% with CSR, while you can get 2.5% with Alliant or 2.625% with BofA TR /w Platinum Honors..

chaseaholic
chaseaholic

Thanks for the heads up, just filled out the survey voicing my displeasure towards gutting the UR system – futile as it may be, still gotta do it.

Fun little bit was at the beginning that they ask how many CC’s you have total and the max # is 15.

Not entirely surprised at the changes they’re looking at though – Devil’s Advocate predicted that nerfs would come to the 1.5 cpp UR portal when the card was released and sure enough here we are.

I’m mostly surprised at the rate – they are already looking at cutting the cards benefits, didn’t the Prestige last 3-4 years before they went in on benefit cuts? Barely finished year 1 of release and already considering seriously devaluing the program…

UPS Guy
UPS Guy

Might just be a ploy to see what the public says on the blogs, getting an initial reaction on the level of outrage and probability of canceling at the upcoming 1 year mark.

MoreSun
MoreSun

Well, the probability of canceling just went up a lot more.

Tavosa
Tavosa

Where did you all get the survey? A direct email, a pop up. a secure message?

I have a CSR, Ink Preferred, Freedom, Amazon Visa, 3 bank accounts… etc, and my GF has the CSR too. No surveys. Wonder who they are asking, or if it is 100% randomized.

chaseaholic
chaseaholic

It’s from the Chase Customer Panel.

I think it’s invite only if you’re a chase customer.

Kyle
Kyle

I would close all chase accounts seeing that there is now no value compared to any others, priority pass sucKS and nothing else the card gives is good except rental insurance. They would become what citi is now. Would then just become a Amex guy full and through. Everyday and platinum combo all the way. That was a great move chase. Lol

sirtheta

These options are pretty enraging. Chase is looking really hard at dismantling a great program, and it’ll be a damn shame.

On the subject of the options, why the fuck would anyone transfer 3:2 when they could cash out at the same rate?

chaseaholic
chaseaholic

Heh, why would anyone cash out UR for an Amazon gc at 0.80 cpp when you could get 1 cpp for cash and then get bare minimum 1% by purchasing stuff with a cc?

Tavosa
Tavosa

yeah…… LOL to this on every level. Naive consumers are the cash cows of the credit industry…. just like paying interest.

My first card with Chase was Freedom and I got a 30,000 UR sign up bonus, my only regret, now and forever, was cashing those to a statement credit… that was when I was young and dumb… 4 years ago 😉

scott
scott

LOL–I did the same thing 4 years ago, only with a 20,000 UR sign up.

Jesse
Jesse

This would still give you the option for airline/hotel transferability, so there would be some value.

Superchurn

Time to transfer all UR to CSR methinks

Dan
Dan

Agree. It seems the devaluation is somewhat decided, now they are just trying to frame it better.

zmicer88
zmicer88

The bank’s strategy with these possible changes might be to force CSR holders to put their everyday spend on the premium card and prevent ‘card-shopping.’ Clearly, they are bleeding from the generous bonus – also recall the switch to the travel credit from the calendar to membership year.

Jay
Jay

CSR, FU, F, get virtually all my spend. I’m not some super sm’er, but I want to maximize my everyday spend value. They’d likely lose every drop of bussines from me if they go through with any of these options.

Nick
Nick

I have 8 Chase cards (all open). Paid a ton in annual fees but it was worth it to me and they still are. I would cancel all of them if this happened though.

Adam
Adam

Honestly keeping things the way they are is not sustainable for Chase. With the right combination of cards and the rotating freedom categories, you are essentially getting 2.25 cent to 7.5 cent value per dollar spent with Chase. Merchant fees are probably only around 3%. Unless you are carrying a balance, which I hope no one here is, Chase must be hemorrhaging money.

I think a fair compromise would be to cap the number of points that can be transferred annually to the CSR. Maybe an annual limit of 30k, after which points would have to be converted at a 3:2 ratio.

MH
MH

No ideas please!

I never understood why when a company makes a proposed negative change, people start volunteering how how far they’re willing to bend over!

Just say NO!! WTF do we have to compromise? Just say NO!

Bob
Bob

I think there’s a large amount of people carrying balances and we are the monitory (churners). Also, there are people who just cash out points or even use them directly on Amazon (even worst than cashing out, but there are, my mom for example). Not to mentor people who transfer them to IHG or Marriot.

Tavosa
Tavosa

IHG/Marriot/Amazon EWWWWWW….. I do Hyatt VERY often, but easily get 2.5/3 ccp….

And yes, was gonna agree… tons and tons and tons and tons and may I repeat? TONS of people carry balance. In fact I can’t think of one of my friends who does not carry balances on credit. (I need new smarter friends)

MoreSun
MoreSun

But they’re not. I booked a hotel for about 7K UR (value about $100) from my CSR. I called the hotel with a request & they said “we have you in a King room at $70/night”. I called Chase & they said well, that’s their travel supplier rate & the hotel shouldn’t have quoted me that rate.

Chase is booking travel at wholesale rates, they would have paid me $70 is cash from my CFU but I transferred the points & spent them on travel happy as a lark. Chase gets most of my transaction fees these days because of the transferability. But they do reserve the right to shoot themselves in the foot.

FLL
FLL
I may also add that when booking an independent property, there is NO WAY to verify your booking is in the property’s system. After reading about horror stories of how UR bookings mysteriously “got lost” in the transmission to the hotels, leaving the travelers standing at the lobby on arrival without a room (often in a Sold Out situation), and it was extremely difficult to sort it out with UR due to the bookings were made thru “vendors” which often were Expedia or Priceline or some barely known OTAs, I decided to check with the property directly on my only 2 UR bookings. One is Radisson Le Vendome at Cape Town. Club Carlson told me it was booked thru Expedia with a special rate – it was under an Expedia Cert to be exact and I could see it on the booking with the hotel confirmation number I fished out from UR Help Desk. At least that booking looks in order. However the other one is a Guest House which is available several OTAs including Expedia and Booking.com, and it has its own sebsite – this one UR said is also booked thru expedia which claims the reservation is “Active”. Unfortunately the property has so far not replied to 4 emails sent to its email address listed on its website, as well as thru the web form email, asking for verification of the booking, as well as to coordinate the Check In time due to the owner does not live on premises. I have escalated the case with the Help Desk at UR to request full refund for cancellation (right now the cancellation clause shown CHANGED to 50% before deadline) due to this total nonresponsive attitude from the property. It would be impossible to resolve any issue with UR when I arrive the property that is in South Africa. UR Help Desk tried to contact the hotel by phone to get the 50% penalty waived but the supervisor claimed hotel refused. I told the supervisor ALL I want is the property to send me an email to confirm the booking and I would happily keep it but as of now I dont even know the booking is in place or not. Then the supervisor put me on hold and came back she was not able to contact the hotel due to it was late at night their time. This TELLS… Read more »
VL
VL

Just FYI – my friends and I myself made numerous booking at Chase portal getting real 1.5x on points redemptions. Granted we booked only major airlines in US… I always check the same or similar flight options directly on the carrier’s website and on the number or OTAs… There is no guarantee that the options given on chase travel portal will include all flight options, or even would be priced the same… but in our experience for major US carriers they do. It is also quite simple to confirm your airplane ticket booking within hours of booking on the carrier’s website.

We also never used them for hotel redemptions – flights only, because with hotels there are usually way more options to stay for less with comparable properties, and we never found hotel redemptions attractive.

Not saying that any of the discussed changes would sit well with me, but 1.5x redemption is real.

Ender
Ender

1.5 ccp redemption ratio doesn’t means chase has to pay 1.5 cents for every cents, they also get commissions as travel agents, which could be very profitable.

MoreSun
MoreSun

Exactly! They paid $70 out of pocket for my $100 booking. And when the math doesn’t work out I suspect they don’t offer it on their portal. For instance, Disney park tickets & 1 day Universal Orlando tickets aren’t offered. I also know those particular items have very low TA commissions and therefore suspect the reason they aren’t offered is Chase can’t earn back the extra redemption value.

Lrdx
Lrdx

You have to do comparison shopping, but I found that approx half the time the Chase price is as good as anywhere else, even though I have access to corporate pricing through my employer (~10-30% off of ‘non-member’ prices at every single hotel chain).

Lrdx
Lrdx

JPM had $4+ billion net revenue in the credit card department last year. Yes, it’s lower than 2015 ($5+ B), but still does not look like “hemorrhaging money”.

Wong
Wong

Hmm, I only transfer the points as airline miles directly, and for the rest, I just cash out. The $1,500 in cash from various points is worth more to me as I don’t travel much. But I am extremely disappointed to hear the potential hit to the CSR redemption @ 1.5x on the travel portal and UR combinations in general.

Rob
Rob

I dunno, the 1.5x freedom unlimited is already kinda useless to me since Amex countered with the 2x Blue Biz Plus. They should probably be testing ideas that enhance value proposition to customers instead of the opposite.

Tavosa
Tavosa

This… 100%. Then again depends on the amount of points you want/need in each program. I have enough UR (and almost only use them for cheap Hyatt redemptions) and not enough MR so, Blue Biz Plus will be my overall everyday card… then again depending on my needs I definitely considered the FU as my next product downgrade in a few months, cause 1.5 with 50% bonus on CSR equals 2% through portal anyways (before these changes) in the scenario where I may rather have 1.5 on the FU for Hyatt than 2 on MR for mostly airline redemption =

Tyler
Tyler

Definitely something that would make me cancel all or most of my cards… hopefully it does t happen.

Sean
Sean

Oh man, I was finally about to apply for a CSR. Also, you guys are hilarious in the comments lmfao

Tavosa
Tavosa

yes LOL at comments…. RAGE….

Also, why is everyone feeling this has any language that would devalue the CSR as a stand alone product? Sure if you have a F/FU/InkCash/InkPre then this could hurt many things, or just the 1.5 redemption at best, but the card itself (CSR) is still of massive value at 3% on restaurants/travel to me…. who the hell wants citi points TBH?

But I’ll take any damn sign up bonus… that is my #1 point making anyways so w/e

rick b
rick b

Anyone who wastes so much money eating out that the 2% cashback vs. 3% UR makes a big difference for you….well you need to re-evaluate your financial health.

Lrdx
Lrdx

You can get 3% back on restaurants and on travel without paying any annual fee..

Tavosa
Tavosa

Okay first off to both rick b and Lrdx, you should read a little better before you post some highly unintelligent reply.

To you rick b….
I said restaurants/travel. You have no earthly idea how much I spend on either category, high or low, and you fail to even comprehend the idea of a business where you take clients out, travel to those clients in various states. On top of this, on note of our other stupid thought, 3 UR vs 2% CB is a massive, at least DOUBLE difference. I redeem UR for at least 2.5ccp/3ccp a piece every-damn-time. Making 3 UR worth 5-6% CB, so yeah. I would say it is highly worth it. You are on a travel/money saving blog and fail to see that 3% on ALL travel is the point here. Please, read more, judge uninformed less.

Lrdx…. where do we even start with you? 3% CB is not 3 UR points, find me a no annual fee 4%….5%-6% OR HIGHER card on both those categories and then we will let you talk.

Wow, just wow. Provide something useful to the discussion, don’t just spew so much nonsense that we are not even going to need an IQ test on you two.

Lrdx
Lrdx

You need to pay $11484 annually in the 3x categories to get even of the net $150 annual fee (cashback value is ~4.3% due to not getting cashback when you pay with points) compared to 3% cashback without AF. If you are, well, good for you, keep the card. Also keep the card if you value other perks.

Just don’t insult immediately if you don’t understand the point, you’ll just look like a moron.

Charlie
Charlie

Hey Lrdx! I can’t follow your math. Can you explain it in more detail? Thanks.

tinytavosa
tinytavosa

Precisely why I stopped arguing with this guy…

To recoup $150 in an annual fee, $1250 in 3x spend nets me 3750 points, those are redeemed at 4ccp when I book my usual $200/night for 5k point Hyatt near Indianapolis Airport.

Of course in order to get all 5k points in a 3x category I would need to spend ~$1666, but that is besides the point of the above math. In addition, admittedly, 4ccp is not usual on other hyatts I book, though I typically see at least 3ccp for any Hyatt Place with a 5k redemption.

mec
mec

MRs can get 2.5 redemptions pretty regularly. So the New BforB Plus would return 5% uncategorized on the first 50k.

Wes
Wes

I love the tough talk about people canceling all their cards. It is hilarious.

rick b
rick b

If they implement any of the above, the no-fee cards become useless, and then it’s just a matter of how long you need to keep a fee card open to burn your stash of points. I can just easily earn 2% in cold hard cash on Spark for example, and they usually waive my AF.

Jesse
Jesse

How is that better than 2% on Double cash with no AF ever?

Andrey
Andrey

FTF

Lrdx
Lrdx

Freedom and Ink Cash will still give you 5% cashback.

Tavosa
Tavosa

Freedom on categories, not relevant unless said category is happening, also you can not get it at least 9 months of a year on the categories that some may use a lot (idk…. gas?) not to mention the $1500 cap…. Ink Cash…. 5%. I wont even explain this one to you.

Lrdx
Lrdx

Are you going to cancel the Freedom because there is a $1500 limit, or the current category is not useful?

Nice joke.

tinytavosa
tinytavosa

If you cancel a no annual fee with free perks, FOR ANY REASON beyond getting another bonus… you have to be the biggest moron I’ve ever heard of.

tinytavosa
tinytavosa

Yeah yeah, couldn’t keep it civil when people keep throwing insults when to start. Though I shoulda,

Blah. Moving on. You’re right.

Hadley V. Baxendale
Hadley V. Baxendale

Request a tutorial on how to transfer UR points from one card to another in the same account, as well as between accounts.

Thank you!

NinjaX
NinjaX

haha.. yes i request a tutorial as well related to how to make money and retire early.

A2Zeek
A2Zeek

Request a pony. And supermodel girlfriend. As well as free guac.

Skippy
Skippy

Try millionmilesecrets. They have lots of tutorials on elementary topics like this.

FA
FA

I really do wonder what % of Chase’s population are churners that maximize CF, Ink products’ 5x points to combine with CSR on the portal. I was always under the impression that most customers with those cards were content with cash back model but apparently there are enough churners/UR hoarders to make this a money pit for chase.

Charlie
Charlie

I’ve been at 5/24 since last August when I got the CSR. After having CSR for a month, I realized that my rewards would increase significantly if I paired it with Freedom Unlimited. I drop from 5/24 to 3/24 in two weeks, and I had been planning to apply immediately for the FU. Now I need to rethink that strategy. I might be better off with PenFed’s new 2% Power Cash card, a card that I would have gotten when it came out six months ago, but dropping below 5/24 took priority.

scott
scott

You need to rethink your strategy because some people got a survey? Nothing has happened and everything you’re reading about this is conjecture.

Charlie
Charlie

Scott: Yep, I have rethought my strategy, and I will follow the golden rule of diversification henceforth. Thanks!

Elmer
Elmer

If you were dropping from 5/24 all the way to 3/24, why wouldn’t you have applied for the 2% card you desired a long time ago? For Chase, 4/24 is just as golden as 3/24. Sounds like you wasted opp, and now are panicking over possible changes that are months away at best.

Charlie
Charlie

Elmer: You are correct! And that’s my new plan.

Jc
Jc

Perhaps I am jaded but often times I find these surveys are seeking answers to questions that are not presented in the survey. My take on this is that United Airlines in particular and some of the other ultimate rewards credit card partners are pissed that they are losing out on credit card sign ups and the typical loyalty that comes from someone holding a credit card to that brand because freedom unlimited offers 1.5 points per dollar on all spend. I think that this may be negatively impacting chase’s contracts and renewals with select partners and thus what they are trying to do is couch this under the 1.5 cents per point transfer when the rack issue is airline and hotel partner transferability. That is why they proposed the 3:2 ratio or transfers from no annual fee cards to no annual fee cards.

But I would definitely close my sapphire reserve card out if they instituted this change and would only use my freedom card at 5x points categories and would definitely reconsider my ink cash relationship as well. Other cards such as fidelity and BofA travel rewards would get my spend instead because the ultimate rewards ecosystem which they spent a years building up will be severely impacted by this change.

Charlie
Charlie

I agree that the airlines have slightly different interests from the banks in the overall credit card game. United is probably the chief beneficiary of transfers from UR to airline miles programs, so they make money whether I use my Chase United Explorer card or my Chase Sapphire Reserve card. By the way, the 1 mile per dollar spent on most airline cards is an obsolete concept from the 1990s.

tinytavosa
tinytavosa

People closing no annual fee cards with clearly the highest earning on any card in certain categories will never stop confusing me. If you are trying to make a point to Chase, I do not think they are going to notice.

mec
mec

Agree completely with your assessment of United and other partnership cards with a relatively high point value getting shafted by the current UR system. If you have a suite of Chase cards it doesn’t make any sense to spend anything on the United cards except for gas on the Business Explorer… and that’s not worth an annual fee. If you value checked bags on United flights or access to the better awards availability the card may have some potential value. But you’d think they’d be a little disturbed by the relationship.

Nick
Nick

They could just make Reserve offer 1.5x on all and 3x on travel and dining plus add rotating 5x categories. Realistically, I wonder what this means for that other survey offering 5x for recurring bills and mobile payment. I’m actually fine with the changes if they are limited to travel and not partner transfers but not sure how they would distinguish that.

Frank
Frank

They are never going to give an obvious 7.5% return on the CSR by itself.

Nick
Nick

Just realize 1 isn’t that bad. So if I transfer 5000 FU points to CSR, it would be $75 in travel or 5000 1:1 transfer partner but if 1 is implemented that would be $50 in travel or 5000 1:1 transfer partner?

Jesse
Jesse

I wasn’t clear on that either. If it still allowed partner transfers, that’s better than nothing.

Will Bieder
Will Bieder

I don’t understand people saying that “all” no annual fees will become useless if this goes through. Yes, I agree that the Freedom Unlimited will not be particularly worthwhile (that I’d probably cancel or sock drawer), but cards like the Ink Cash? Even if you can’t transfer the 5x UR to the CSR at full value, you’re still (at worst) getting 5% cash back or getting 3.33 UR points transferred which is much better than you’ll do for office supply/telecom spending anywhere else.

Don’t get me wrong, this would definitely be a negative, but I’ve thought for a while that their program is not sustainable. I’m taking advantage while I can.

Chase, KMA
Chase, KMA

Chase needs to do the following:
Make CFU a 2% CB card with no transfer-ability, no FTF.
Make CSR a 2 pts/$ base earner, with the option to transfer to partners. Get rid of the travel credit with a commensurate reduction in annual fee.
Make CSP a 1.5 pts/$ base earner, option to transfer to partners.
For CSP, CSR 1 pt = 1 cent. No bonus for travel redemptions.

Why is it so hard for these marketing/loyalty programs to come up with an easy to understand system that eliminates unsustainable expectation?

Since I solved your problems, Chase. Would you mind letting me back into your good graces?

Mark
Mark

Lol at the comments

Got a good chuckle

NinjaX
NinjaX

love it.

are we really surprised by all this? all the vets had expected something like this after they witnessed one of the most ridiculous events in CC history when the CSR came out.

but what did all the 5/24 n00bs say? told us the CSR was the greatest CC ever and will be keeping it long term and all other CC were trash. bwahaha. this is called pulling a fast one after year 1 to obtain massive customer traction then dumping it. good work chase. i see what you did there.

now Prestige is copying chase’s playbook. SMH…

Long Live CUs
Long Live CUs

It’s not like Amex will save us. US Bank? They’ll just close your existing cards for buying a $25 Amazon birthday present.

The decline will continue until the masses are culled. I’m not holding my breath

The Value Traveler

quite a year: first they raised my annual fee on my CSP to $95…and now this (sort of ) deval to hit both my UR cards….so if I’m reading this right….I can still xfer points from Freedom card to Sapphire, but NOT at 1:1???

Robert DiSalvo

I did not get the survey and searched all through my email and spam folder. I have been a CFC Holder for 14 months and a CSP holder since January if that has anything to do with anything. I remember being at my local Chase branch having a casual conversation with my bankers there back in Jan and them mentioning why I have not used all the points I have yet and I should probably convert them because banks are always making changes and they could evaluate. Well I have used half of them on a trip last months and I think I just may take these little hints and transfer my CFC points tonight to my CSP.

Thanks For the heads up

Charlie
Charlie

I ran some numbers through a spreadsheet. My annual spend through Chase credit cards is about 1/3 travel and dining and 2/3 “all other.” I earn 50,000 UR per year from organic spend. My yields from various credit card combinations would rank as follows:

1. CSR + CFU under current Chase UR rules
2. CSR + Another bank’s 2% flat rate cash back card
3. CSR + CFU under any of the potential Chase alternatives

If Chase changes their UR rules, the second combination is my way ahead: use CSR for travel and dining, and move “all other” spending to a non-Chase card.

CFU would become a clone of Capital One Quicksilver under the new rules. However, if Chase were to evolve CFU into a 2% flat rate cash back card like Citi Double Cash, it might stem a migration of “all other” spending to other bank’s cards.

Carter
Carter

I proactively sent a message to Chase via Secure Message (I was not solicited for the survey) saying that I heard they were considering changes to the AF/non-AF UR points transfers. I stated that I thought these changes are negative and I would likely switch lenders if they went into effect. The link for feedback on my account page says “What can we do better? WE’RE LISTENING” … I hope they are actually listening.

Charlie
Charlie

Carter, please let us know how they respond. Thanks.

Carter
Carter

The response was not very helpful.

————————————-

Hello Carter,

Thank you for contacting us about the Ultimate Reward
points.

I would like to share that there are no such changes. In
future, if there are any changes you will be notified.

If you need any other assistance, you can send us a secure
message. We appreciate your business and thank you for
choosing Chase.

Thank you,
Velanie
Chase Email Servicing

mec
mec

That’s what the Chase Fairmont CSR told me in early spring.

Those guys & gals will be the last to know.

tinytavosa
tinytavosa

Sure might not be a bad idea to encourage people to be do the same.

Clearly if this produced a negative impact, chase is already dumb enough that we could surmise that we are screwed.

Let’s just keep praying it was a gathering asking questions that weren’t actually being asked – ones that could even help us.

Yeah Right
Yeah Right

I would keep the buzz up about canceling. Chase found a way to excite social media about their CSR. If they get the same response, only negative, they may listen.

Kate
Kate

On option 3, would the reverse a 2:3 ratio apply? For example if you would like to transfer 10,000 points from your Sapphire Reserve account/CSP/Ink Plus, to your Freedom card, your Freedom would be credited with 15,000 points and redeemed for cash = $150?

zalmy
zalmy

Even if they would allow that, would be terrible. As long as you have a Reserve, you’re getting a 1.5 cpp MINIMUM value anyway..

tinytavosa
tinytavosa

Uninformed comment. What this was allowed, finding yourself wanting to redeem points for 1.5ccp on things OUTSIDE of the chase portal or transfer partners…. would be a very normal thing for some people.

Please think before just assuming your situation is the same as everyone’s situation…

tinytavosa
tinytavosa

Was this allowed***

Also, by “outside of the chase portal or transfer partners” I mean for cash back…. If you transfer points that are 3x on travel/dining from CSR to FU or Freedom at 2:3 then you’d be getting, what, 4.5% actual cash back vs 3%? You do not see how this would have value to someone? THE BEST redemption options are not always the right options for some. If you are about to lose your car, you may want to redeem your UR at the 1ccp value and move on, for instance.

Try to think about options, not perfections.

FLL
FLL

A Resounding NO.

It only achieves the 1.5 c if you redeem for travel thru the very glitch UR portal which
1) Does not always offer best airfares.
2) Hotel bookings often “get lost”, leaving people standing at an oversold hotel without a reservation despite UR told them they were all set.

The 1.5c is a value in theory subject to conditions and LOTS of perils.

Many people have tried to use this benefit and have found it very disappointing.

Duke5150
Duke5150

Oh come on, Chase is not thinking of making any of these changes. IT’s VIRAL MARKETING. They did it with the CSReserve and are getting another bump in free visibility with this “survey”. Oh, same timing as the Citi Prestige roll out….. Why would such a successful team do something stupid….

farsighted99
farsighted99

I transferred all my UR points from various cards (Ink, Freedom) to my CSR card; no big whoop, since that’s the only one I use these days. I hope it doesn’t happen, but better to be prepared.

I’ve been using airfare through the Chase Travel site for quite a while never; I haven’t really had any problems getting the lower price on tickets. Went to the UK last year, Barbados and now going to Italy soon with my UR points. No problems. I get my airline miles too.

VL
VL

Question / advise request:

I have pretty extensive Chase UR Cards portfolio. 7 AF personal/business cards between me and my spouse… up until now I have kept most of the points under the accounts they have been earned, and was planning to do so as long as I can until the time comes to cancel/downgrade due to the AF at anniversary. Have not closed any yet, as all of them are less than 1 year old.

My reasoning was do not put all eggs in one basket… but due to this rumor it may be worth transferring all points to CSR. Do not have any No AF cards with Chase as was going after the sign up bonuses all that time…

Your thoughts?
Thank you for your recommendations.

farsighted99
farsighted99

I just moved all my chase UR points from my other cards to my CSR card. I have a Freedom and an Ink Plus card. I only use those two cards for the 5X point items pretty much. If I didn’t get 5X on those cards, I wouldn’t have them at all and just use the Sapphire card. I hope they don’t change the transfer capabilities.

Right now I’m using Freedom for all the restaurants for the next couple of months. I use Ink for business supplies, cable and Internet and phone, and some gift card purchases. The rest goes on the Sapphire card for items that get 3X points. The stuff that only gets 1X goes on Amex Blue Business for 2X MR and/or Citi Double. I have a few others I use for other reasons (Hilton Hotels, SPG, other Amex cards, etc.).

The best card though is the Chase Sapphire Reserve. I hope they don’t change it.

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