[Update] Is it Safe to Manufacture-Spend to meet the Signup Bonus Spend Requirement?

Is it Safe to Manufacture-Spend the Minimum Spend Requirement for the Signup Bonus? People often ask us this question, especially those newer to credit cards. They want to know if it’s okay to buy gift cards or similar schemes in order to meet the signup bonus spend requirement on a given credit card.

I can think of two cases where it would be ill-advised to do so:

  • American Express cards. Over the past couple of years, Amex has gotten pesky and unstable, and can deny the signup bonus for any reason. It’s never entirely clear what their reason was, so I’d try avoiding buying any large gift cards at all to keep in the clear.
  • U.S. Bank Altitude. With the U.S. Bank Altitude card we saw extra observation since that card earns 3x on mobile wallet payment. Probably just an issue with Altitude, not with other U.S. Bank cards.

Since the signup bonuses usually just requires between $500 and $5,000, these small amounts are usually fine to buy gift cards or other such ideas as they fall under the radar. It might be better to split it up and not do the entire $5k in one shot.

As far as the larger question of manufacturing spend in an ongoing manner, just about any bank may raise a flag when they see such activity. I’d especially avoid it with the larger banks when you want to keep in their good graces. That said, everything depends on volume. A lot of people manufacture spend on their INK Plus/Cash card, for example, with a few thousand dollars of gift cards per month. The shutdowns are usually for those doing much larger volumes or those doing such volumes across many cards from the same bank.

In conclusion, nothing is ever entirely guaranteed as being safe as there are various factors at play. But generally a few thousand dollars worth of gift cards shouldn’t cause an issue, with the exception of Amex and the US Bank Altitude where I’d recommend avoiding it. (The Amex scrutiny seems to be about the signup bonus in particular, not about manufactured spending in general.)

Update 11/2/22: Sporadic reports say that lately American Express considers tax payments to be manufactured spend to deny signup bonus or other spend bonuses. (1, 2) The vast majority of people, myself included, are getting signup bonuses from Amex with tax payments as the spend. This issue is probably related only to those who spend on their temporary instant-issue card which doesn’t always seem to track toward a minimum spend requirement. Also interesting is that Chase specifically promotes paying taxes with a credit card to meet a spend requirement.

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007
007 (@guest_1501852)
December 4, 2022 16:03

For meeting AmEx MSR, are the following risky or ok? (1) funding bank account (those that accept AmEx), (2) buying gift cards at stores that don’t send level 3 data and using filler items to avoid exact amounts? Thanks!

crazy-paving
crazy-paving (@guest_1600029)
April 17, 2023 22:08

what is level 3 data? where to find it?

007
007 (@guest_1600042)
April 17, 2023 22:26

So I already did (2) for biz plat as part of msr and still got bonus. L3 data is additional data about what was actually purchased. Basically do a test transaction, wait several business days after it posts, then check your Amex transactions to see if additional data is displayed re what was bought.

crazy-paving
crazy-paving (@guest_1600046)
April 17, 2023 22:28

gotcha. I am plannig to meet MSR organically but wouldn’t make it whole. I have venture x and was looking for MS methods that are not flagged by venture x. What did you do?

007
007 (@guest_1600091)
April 17, 2023 23:25

So I’ll preface by saying I’ve never had a capital one credit card so have no personal experience with how sensitive (or not) they are to gift cards for msr. Chase, for example, doesn’t seem to care. AmEx supposedly very sensitive. We have local grocery store that sells gift of college gift cards in $500 denomination. I genuinely used to fund a 529 college savings account. These could also be used for MS as there is no penalty on the principal for non education related expenses , only on the earnings (would probably need to float funds for a while to maximize and may not be as worthwhile in a high interest rate environment). Can also use these to pay student loans

crazy-paving
crazy-paving (@guest_1600227)
April 18, 2023 06:34

gotcha thanks.

crazy-paving
crazy-paving (@guest_1600436)
April 18, 2023 13:10

007 did you have real biz that you put in application? if not what did you say? what NAICS number you used?

007
007 (@guest_1600455)
April 18, 2023 13:25

No real biz, but have several biz cards and biz checking with chase. I think other scientific and technical consulting due to my day job. I certainly could have one if I wanted but choose not to do so for time reasons (I almost convinced myself to start it after describing it to the chase business banker when I was opening the account).

crazy-paving
crazy-paving (@guest_1600462)
April 18, 2023 13:33

thanks for reply. do they call to verify for your biz? like I am about to apply for US bank biz and CIC for first time. what are your experience with USB and chase ?

007
007 (@guest_1600489)
April 18, 2023 13:55

No verification needed for Chase business cards (checking account had to go in person so had to talk about business, although was very informal). US Bank business checking – no verification for me. US Bank business credit card for P2 who already had US Bank business checking – no verification.

crazy-paving
crazy-paving (@guest_1600502)
April 18, 2023 14:08

gotcha. were your mailing address same for p1 &p2’s USB Biz checking? I’ve seen dp here that account was closed due to suspicion .

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/u-s-bank-500-business-checking-bonus/#comment-1563345

007
007 (@guest_1600629)
April 18, 2023 16:26

Same address for both p1 and p2. No closure now for more than 6 months or so. To be fair our addressing system is weird and there are multiple properties that have a very similar address (we sometimes get neighbors mail).

crazy-paving
crazy-paving (@guest_1600644)
April 18, 2023 16:38

same to me as we rent an apartment. May I ask what info did you put in your recent biz app. like what NAICS number and biz type?

007
007 (@guest_1600680)
April 18, 2023 17:22

I just checked and I no longer have my account opening screenshots for us bank biz account as we were paid out bonus few months ago already. However my recollection is they have a drop-down with a list of business categories or types but we had to select other, and I think if you pick any of the listed categories (things like money services business) you would be declined for an account.

crazy-paving
crazy-paving (@guest_1600688)
April 18, 2023 17:23

gotcha. will try to get SUB.

Di Ma
Di Ma (@guest_1478860)
November 3, 2022 11:00

Just did estimate tax payment and points posted yesterday – amex bonus offer

JB Charlotte
JB Charlotte (@guest_1478412)
November 2, 2022 18:18

Had my Citi cards shut down for to much MS.

WGU
WGU (@guest_1478458)
November 2, 2022 19:38

What’s to much? We need numbers

COBOLCODERUSEALLCAPS
COBOLCODERUSEALLCAPS (@guest_1576898)
March 14, 2023 12:47

I can give you mine – $60k every month total after cycling 3 times per month for 2 years. I was given the Citi version of a Financial Review in the 4th month before shutdown.

James Bond
James Bond (@guest_1577008)
March 14, 2023 15:26

Thanks for the useful numbers!!!

James Bond
James Bond (@guest_1481649)
November 7, 2022 12:36

Numbers and time frame would be super helpful.

sybloc
sybloc (@guest_1478058)
November 2, 2022 11:52

“It’s over Johnny. IT’S OVER! “

86
86 (@guest_1478668)
November 3, 2022 01:51

“Nothing is over! Nothing! You just don’t turn it off!”

Rob
Rob (@guest_1478040)
November 2, 2022 11:28

I did some state and Federal credit card tax payments in September 2022 and it automatically counted and I earned the SUB for the Amex Bus Plat.

K-Man
K-Man (@guest_1478034)
November 2, 2022 11:23

When you intentionally overpay your taxes to receive a refund later, that is technically manufactured spending. I’m sure Amex would consider this gaming. Normally it’s just not likely Amex could catch this. But if you open a business card and, say, list your annual revenue as 10K, but then you slap a 15K quarterly estimated tax payment on it — that might seem pretty obvious. I don’t know that is what happened, but I could imagine it.

lochquel
lochquel (@guest_1811478)
March 10, 2024 12:06

Highly doubt AMEX knows how much your taxes are.

Frey
Frey (@guest_1811530)
March 10, 2024 15:26

Is the payment coded as estimated taxes? Could just be taxes owed.

The_Most_Hay
The_Most_Hay (@guest_1478021)
November 2, 2022 11:04

I knocked out biz plat & gold subs a couple weeks ago with SUB posting within 1-2 days, no issues

Johnny
Johnny (@guest_1486763)
November 13, 2022 11:58

Good to know. Any big picture details how? Gift cards at a local grocery?

Danny
Danny (@guest_1477941)
November 2, 2022 09:42

I paid property taxes last year with Blue Cash preferred and spread it out with buy now pay later and I received the bonus.

I wasn’t sure if you were referring to property taxes or income taxes,

sg77
sg77 (@guest_1478100)
November 2, 2022 12:33

I think the data points I’ve seen of Amex not counting tax payments were all for federal income tax. But that might just be because federal tax payments are much more common than other types. I would assume that any type of tax payment has some risk.

LoveCreditCards
LoveCreditCards (@guest_1477936)
November 2, 2022 09:27

Wait, so if I have 6 inks for different businesses and I buy $1,500 on each one then that is too much? I’m not maxing out each one because you can spend $25,000 on each card per year so I’m only spending $18,000. Are you saying that’s too much because I have multiple cards so my total is high? I thought I would try to not meet the max for each card but just get many ink cards but now you’re saying maybe that’s a bad idea?

Cruser Rod
Cruser Rod (@guest_1477890)
November 2, 2022 07:42

AmEx Terms & Conditions for new card bonus never states tax payment is not allowed. It is not “cash like” transaction where you buy GC or traveler’s checks. Then cash those papers.

Swastik Agrawal
Swastik Agrawal (@guest_1477906)
November 2, 2022 08:19

Yea you can CFPB that BS pretty easily I assume.