- OCC drops hammer on Stumpf, seven other ex-Wells Fargo execs by American Banker.
- Will Going After Citi Card Churners Backfire on American Airlines? by NASDAQ
- Sprint Exposed Customer Support Site to Web by Krebs On Security.
- Have an old Marriott travel package you can’t use? You might be able to get points for it. by Frequent Miler.
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Here are some of the most popular posts from past few days:
I wasn’t impacted by this whole AA shutdown thing because I never bothered with it(or even knew about it until it had been going on a while). But I think them wantonly zeroing out accounts and cancelling itineraries mid-travel is ridiculous. Their security team was apparently put on an extremely long leash to address this how they please based on how heavy handed they’re being and I hope some execs inside the company that actually care about bad press and losing customers(who are also churners) will take notice, pump the breaks, and reverse course. They have to understand that just because you left yourself the right to do something, doesn’t mean you should. There’s clearly some culpability on their behalf in leaving gaping loopholes in place and a reasonable expectation they’d moderate their response in a fair manner. Lining up all these customers and shooting them one at a time will not help their reputation as having a good rewards program or good customer service, it doesn’t matter if they were on the right side of this ethically. It’s going to cost them business travelers for sure.
Agreed with you 100%. Also there are plenty of people who are (1) churners, (2) possibly terrible Citi customers, and (3) terrific AA customers out there. AA’s targeting lovers of AA miles won’t be filtering out just undesirable customers.
I am not giving any business to AA anymore!
RE: Wells Fargo Executives –
Should be criminal charges not civil – jail instead of a a golden parachute with industry work ban.
The article makes a statement without any backup. How will it backfire on them? Less unprofitable customers?
It may well backfire on them but the article makes no prediction how. Really not worth the read just to get another unstabstantiated opinion.
exactly what I felt, wasted 2 minutes
I had well over 350k when my AA account was suspended and only less than 200k were from sign up bonuses. I can’t believe they just didn’t claw back the points instead of suspending/shutting down accounts.
“Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines
Nothing is going to backfire on AA for their actions. Churners know what they’re doing often isn’t the intent of how these programs work and should understand that actions are occasionally taken to punish those caught. You chose to play the game. And the general public isn’t going to feel bad for you because you were caught.
AA moved to set an example which makes sense to me.
The same could be said for just about anyone applying for a credit card, meeting the spend, and putting it in the sock drawer.
You are violating the intent of their program making money off of you.
Agree 100%. AA isn’t making money off the churners and everyone knows that.
I don’t agree with what AA is doing with the Citi mailers — especially for those who just used a handful that were sent to their homes — but the idea that AA will “be hurt” by the current crackdown seems fanciful and extremely remote. The public at large won’t care — and those few who would even pay attention will simply be envious and not sympathetic to the churners. Meanwhile, by their nature, almost the churners will be back with AA if it’s in their personal interest to do so. Never believe anyone who says “I’ll never fly xyz airline again.”
Sounds like someone missed the trAAin
I can’t imagine the AA move will be bad — yes selling miles is a major profit center but at the end of the day 60k for a few K of CC spend can’t be worth it for them or citi.
“but they can counter that loopholes and back doors left unchecked for years were baiting them.”
Wow. Just wow.
Full context: “Churners aren’t innocent, but they can counter that loopholes and back doors left unchecked for years were baiting them.”
Either you are innocent or guilty. There is no i was being baited.
The real head-scratcher here is people who were shut down for using mailers addressed to them with no 24-month language.
Yes. Which is why people hate locusts. Card companies take a hammer to shut down churners. They don’t do just surgical changes. In this case they have done much better but still not good enough. Most of the time card companies just change the terms and penalize even the non or light churners.
I’d agree with you…if this was coming from Citi (and this was the end game any reasonable person would have expected), but it’s not.
Citi paid AA for miles, approved applications and issued *their points*.
AA voided said miles, essentially getting paid for something they now never have to deliver on.
If I were Citi I’d be asking for a significant amount of money to be returned, yet Citi seems to be in the dark.
Everyone should be concerned given this hobby lives off of loopholes and exploitation.
What’s to say United doesn’t do the same thing for individuals bypassing 5/24 with Black Star offers? Or Amex shuts someone down for violating the spirit of Airline Fee reimbursements.
Not EVERYONE lives off loopholes and exploitations.
Suckers like you don’t
Criminals think the same thing about people who don’t commit crimes.
banks and airlines both exploit people everyday. I have zero sympathy for them. Continuing on
I think banks and airlines have a tighter relationship than mere transactional. We saw that between bofa and alaska ss ed now citi and aa.
Citi may be the one sending the names of accounts to be locked. How else would they have known who created new accounts to send mailer to.
There is churning and then there is fake accounts created to get mailers. There is no blurry line in between them here.
You wrote: “Citi may be the one sending the names of accounts to be locked. How else would they have known who created new accounts to send mailer to.”
AA doesn’t know (their shutdown results show that) and didn’t think it needed to know.
All AA has to “know” to figure who used mailers is that it was impossible to apply for 3 or more of the SAME Citi AA card within 2 years (in recent years) if you didn’t use mailers. AA knows which exact card each bonus for (it shows up in your online statement). So all AA had to search for was accounts that had 3 or more Citi Plat AA bonuses within 2 years, and that meant that 1 or more of those apps had to have used mailers.
The one problem with this methodology, of course, is even though mailers were perhaps MOST OFTEN “misused” (either mailers addressed to someone else, and/or additional AA accounts created just to get mailers), there were a tiny fraction of people who only used mailers legitimately addressed to them and they got caught up in the same hurricane, because of the way AA “figured out” who used mailers without asking Citi. and this without knowing if mailers were “misused” in EVERY single case.
Case in point, Aeroplan is going nuclear in response to a broken promotion they ran.
https://www.pointsnerd.ca/what-happens-when-promotions-go-bad-a-look-into-the-consequences-of-manufacturing-miles/
“Card companies use a hammer to shut down churners”
Really? More of your stupid hyperbole! You have no clue of all the churning and tricks out there that have never been hammered.
You really should not keep posting under the same name.
Only guilty if the T&Cs say not allowed -simply contract legality, either it was boilerplate or AA in house counsel is subpar or it was by design to juice the bottom line -till it didnt.
there is a right and a wrong
Lol. I read that and was like “who wrote this garabage article”?
I think the real risk here is more focused on legitimate users who will hear about these mileage seizures and shy away from collecting AA miles or signing up for the card. It’s possible the negative effects from stranding people in airports worldwide and taking all their miles will come back to bite AA because it undermines faith in the miles as a form of currency worth having.
Talk about cutting off your oxygen to spite your lungs.
Selling miles IiRC is AA one and only profit center. (haha) But just par for the course with AA mediocre products and customer service to attack your only rainmaker.