Chase Updates Business Credit Card Application Page (Income Cannot Be Zero, Business Established Date Required)

Chase has updated the application form for business credit cards, currently this new form is showing when logged in on regular applications. The new form is not showing on referral links and when not logged in. The form is largely the same with two key differences:

  • Annual business revenue can no longer be zero
  • Requests ‘Business Established Date’ rather than ‘Years In Business’

American Express has required annual business revenue of $1,000 for as long as I can remember. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was an effort by Chase to tighten business lending due to the COVID-19 crisis, Chase also suspended business affiliate links recently to most partners.

Hat tip to ZeSexyPanda

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Nadya
Nadya (@guest_968279)
April 30, 2020 12:37

Confirming this, just got denied for CIU for a new business with start date of 04/2020. Already have 3 of their business card (on top on personal) but those were under sole proprietorship.

MSer
MSer (@guest_961058)
April 20, 2020 23:47

The 3 ink card SUBs are my favorite and a key reason i stay under 5/24. This is unfortunate but not overly surprising. Chase is trying to reduce risk in times when small business are more likely to fail. Doesn’t seem to be geared at churners. Still possible to get approved if you have established accounts with some funds and some business income listed on app. So shouldn’t affect me unless things get worse.

Mike-
Mike- (@guest_958998)
April 17, 2020 16:11

The reason they want the business establishment date is because they aren’t approving business cards for businesses that haven’t been established for at least 2 years and if you have a business checking account with them it has to have at least 500 in it or auto declined. they are preparing for another credit crises at least for the near term.

George
George (@guest_959124)
April 17, 2020 19:50

Source?

I applied for a Chase biz card last Thursday (the 9th), and got the new app page. Biz start date was 05/2019. It was automatically approved on Friday (the 10th). Either what you’re saying is wrong, or the new app page went up before they made the changes.

Karl
Karl (@guest_959588)
April 18, 2020 14:22

It appears to have changed on 4/16/20. You applied just in time!

tavert
tavert (@guest_959125)
April 17, 2020 19:52

> if you have a business checking account with them it has to have at least 500 in it or auto declined

As of when? I applied and was approved for my third CIP on April 1st, and my Chase business checking has been sitting at $15 balance for a few months. If this requirement is real it’s either very new or wasn’t getting enforced on applications through referral links.

Brandon
Brandon (@guest_958863)
April 17, 2020 12:02

They are now doing this for opening business checking accounts as well. I opened for my sole proprietorship on 4/15/20 and was asked for a specific date when I had started the business. The rep said if I didn’t know then I could just give her a the month I started it though, YMMV.

Emporio
Emporio (@guest_958841)
April 17, 2020 11:35

The IRS has no involvement with or interest in data submitted on business credit card applications. The implications of submitting inflated business revenue are realized only if you were to run up a balance on the card and declare bankruptcy. A bankruptcy court generally would not allow you to write off a debt resulting from a credit line obtained under false pretenses as the bank has the law on its side.

George
George (@guest_958800)
April 17, 2020 10:25

I doubt this is related to the virus. More likely, a step toward curbing fraud. They know churners are doing this. Just like BofA requiring documentation and their shutting down of accounts months later. Expect more of this, particularly from Chase.

Sexy_kitten7
Sexy_kitten7 (@guest_958812)
April 17, 2020 10:42

+1 IIRC Amex used to have a drop down menu. The lowest option was something like $0-100k. That’s pretty much all of us. LOL

MoreSun
MoreSun (@guest_958821)
April 17, 2020 10:58

It’s risk management pure and simple in an age where a crap ton of people have stopped paying their credit cards.

Dima
Dima (@guest_958771)
April 17, 2020 09:50

This might be obvious to most people, but revenue does not (always) equal income. Your business might have a large revenue, but no income (due to expenses) for tax purposes.

George
George (@guest_959121)
April 17, 2020 19:42

Exactly. Run a low-profit resale business, keep good records, and report it on your taxes. You’ll have business revenue for the application, and documents (a quick year-end report and Schedule C should be plenty) for verification. That grants you access to biz cards without having to lie about actually having one, and means you don’t have to abandon applications when they ask for verification.

I’m seeing a lot of DPs pointing to low-revenue sole proprietorships getting extra scrutiny, though. My crappy business doesn’t have very high revenue, as it takes time to run it – with a mediocre profit margin, I’m basically paying myself minimum wage; with no economies of scale, expanding it to boost revenue means working more hours at minimum wage. I’m looking into lower-margin, lower-time-investment additions to boost revenue – the lower time investment means I’d be working slightly more, but the lower the margin I aim for, the riskier it becomes.

Stan
Stan (@guest_958753)
April 17, 2020 09:18

does business income on a card application have tax consequences? can the IRS know if you claimed a certain number?

Bill Bates
Bill Bates (@guest_958755)
April 17, 2020 09:20

good question

Grant
Grant (@guest_958767)
April 17, 2020 09:38

Yes if the numbers are not the same you are either evading taxes or inflating your income. Granted small numbers don’t grab the attention of the IRS, but if the numbers don’t match that is a crime.

Sam
Sam (@guest_958769)
April 17, 2020 09:47

ummm this is just completely false. IRS is not notified of what income you claim on a credit card app and the banks have no way to verify income unless they specifically ask for tax docs or paystubs (which you can of course refuse to provide and they can refuse to issue you credit)

Sexy_kitten7
Sexy_kitten7 (@guest_958811)
April 17, 2020 10:40

Well to continue this line of thought, that’s completely false too! There are a number of income verification services. Also, many public sector salaries are disclosed as a matter of law.

Sam
Sam (@guest_958855)
April 17, 2020 11:52

there are services that utilize public information to look at someone’s stated work history and guesstimate an income (credit profiles have some income and employment info but that’s based off self reporting from your own applications). but as someone stated below, there are many sources of sources of income. a bank issuing a credit card has no knowledge if you have a trust fund or family money or some other ancillary income source outside primary employment. the IRS would have more info on this (presumably), but the bank doesnt have the authority to request that information from the IRS. pretty much the only way you could get in trouble for misstating income is if you got wrapped up in some other activity, like bankruptcy and then it comes out in court that you lied about income to fraudulently be granted more credit that you later defaulted on

George
George (@guest_958818)
April 17, 2020 10:53

This answer may provide a false sense of security to people lying on applications. I don’t know what Stan is asking above, the spirit of his question, but it seems to me some people may think it is okay to lie on an application if there is a good chance you won’t get caught. What you’re saying is true–about the IRS and a bank not verifying information. On the other hand, a bank can refer situations to law enforcement for investigation of crimes. Quite unlikely, but possible. Like the guy in McMillion$ says, you can get away with something over and over but they only need to catch you once.

Larry
Larry (@guest_958773)
April 17, 2020 09:50

And how exactly would any numbers, small or large, grab the attention of the IRS? Are you saying that credit card issuers share the information on your application with the IRS?

Frank
Frank (@guest_958795)
April 17, 2020 10:16

No, the IRS has no means of accessing or comparing the number. Further even if they could access it, the “income” for tax purposes is different from the “income” for the application (read the rules of each) so there wouldn’t be anything they could do with the information.

Even my personal income for credit cards is different from my personal income for the IRS — e.g. unsold investments can be included in CC income but that’s obviously not taxable for IRS purposes

Pointz
Pointz (@guest_958909)
April 17, 2020 13:38

They are different, but have you ever thought about why they asking you nontaxable portion?

parkdanil
parkdanil (@guest_958751)
April 17, 2020 09:15

I’ve got 2 AMEX Biz cards. I don’t recall having to tell them my revenues when applying.

Matt Katakis
Matt Katakis (@guest_958768)
April 17, 2020 09:43

The $1000 rule is semi-new (within the last year or two) and last I recall, can be overridden if you apply by phone.

wwllmm
wwllmm (@guest_958749)
April 17, 2020 09:11

I believe I was told by a number of bankers (multiple times) when applying in person this can be a projected number if you are “just starting out”. Is this the case, or you need solid/documented number?