Earlier today we wrote a post on whether it was worth signing up for the American Express SPG cards now given Marriott had announced details of the merger with SPG and we had more details regarding the SPG cards. A few readers asked me to do a similar post on the Chase Marriott personal, business and Ritz-Carlton personal card so here goes.
Chase Marriott Personal
This card will be discontinued and replaced with the Chase Marriott Premier Plus. Existing cardholders will be able to upgrade to the Premier Plus and if it’s your first year of being a cardholder you won’t have to pay the additional $10 annual fee in the first year (this is due to the CARD act). Some things to note:
- Chase 5/24 rule applies to this card
- Current sign up bonus is 75,000 points with the annual fee waived first year
- Premier Plus card will launch with a 100,000 point bonus, but requires $5,000 in spend instead of $3,000
- I suspect this will be treated as a different card to the Premier Plus
If I had to guess the Premier Plus will not have the annual fee waived first year. So it’s a matter of whether you’d prefer an 25,000 Marriott points for $95 or not. Personally I don’t think Marriott cards are even worth a 5/24 slot but if you do then you probably value 25,000 points at more than $95 so my recommendation would be to wait until the new card launches. You could theoretically get this bonus and the Premier Plus if you really value Marriott points as well I guess (update: Chase website says: “Cardmembers can have either the Marriott Rewards Premier credit card or the Marriott Rewards Premier Plus credit card. We will be offering points to upgrade to the new Marriott Rewards® Registered Trademark Premier Plus card. Check back on May 3rd” so I guess you won’t be able to get both).
Chase Marriott Business
Chase doesn’t have the right to issue Marriott business cards (starting in August I think) so if you’re interested in this card then you need to apply now. Some things to note:
- Chase 5/24 rule does not apply to this card
- Current sign up bonus is 75,000 points with the annual fee waived first year
We’ve seen bonuses on this card up to 100,000 but without the annual fee waived the first year. I think the 100,000 point bonus is better but it’s a question of whether we will see that return before Chase no longer issues that card. To be honest I have no real idea. My gut recommendation is to get the bonus now. But I could easily see reasoning for waiting closer to August.
Chase Ritz-Carlton
Chase will still issue the Ritz-Carlton and they plan to make changes to the card, currently it’s not competitive at all in terms of ongoing benefits (it has a spend requirement for gold status. Keep in mind this card comes with a $450 annual fee. Update: This is gold status under Marriott, it will become Platinum under the new program). Some things to note:
- Chase 5/24 rule does not apply to this card
- Current sign up bonus is two complimentary free night awards at tier 1-4 properties
We’ve seen bonuses on this card of 140,000 points or three free nights. Given that Chase is going to make changes to this card and continue to issue it my recommendation would be to wait until those are released. They are supposed to be in line with what the American Express Luxury SPG card offers and traditionally card issuers will offer a higher than normal bonus to help launch a new card/or product refresh in this case.
Our Verdict
Basically my advice is to not worry about the personal Marriott card because 5/24 applies to it, sign up for the business card if you’re eligible and wait for more information on the Ritz-Carlton. Obviously your own travel plans and what minimum spend requirements you can meet should inform the decision you make. Don’t just blindly follow my suggestions, read why I am making those suggestions and then apply that thinking to your own unique situation!
So I churned the Personal Marriott card in November 2016 and need the 100k for lifetime points (legacy Marriott). I’m also below 5/24. Should I be okay to close out the personal card at the end of this month and reopen it next month?
You have to wait 24 months in between bonuses so you’d be out of luck. Could you do the business card instead? That would also save a 5/24 spot as Chase business cards don’t count.
So the Personal Marriott will be considered the same product as a Personal Premier?
Ah that’s a good point, was thinking that wouldn’t be available until August but it’s available in May. That should work.
#Winning! Thanks.
Hey Doc, how do you know that the ritz will be sticking around/getting a refresh rather than just going away?
because Chase has the rights to issue a premium card and it was listed as staying
Those 2 free Ritz nights look like they’ll allow you to book 2 nights at any Starwoodiott (Starriott?) property for a brief window of time from August-EOY. I think that makes it worth heavy consideration if you’re well over 5/24.
Possibly, we will see if that’s how it works in practice.
Does anyone have any input on whether Chase may allow a product change to a different branded card outside of Marriott for the old Chase Marriott Premier?
The Chase Marriott Premier $85 version will be discontinued, and Chase will give cardholders the option to upgrade to the new Marriott Premier Plus at $95. The $10 increase is not much, but since there is an increase, I wonder if they will allow a product change outside the Marriott brand. For example, change to a lower annual fee card like the Freedom Unlimited. I know a co-branded product change is typically not allowed, but with all of these changes and the fee hike, this could be a lucrative loophole if you put up a fight.
DoC, you say Chase won’t have the right to issue Marriott Business cards, but it is still listed on the Marriott Merger information page AND AMEX won’t be offering the SPG Biz any longer – no more business cards for Marriott at all, or is this an error?
Where does it say that? It’s supposed to be a mass market consumer card & premium card from Chase and a premium card/business card from Amex. https://www.doctorofcredit.com/spg-marriott-cards/
Is SPG personal going away after Aug 1? Has that been officially announced?
Yes it is, it was announced when the terms of the new card agreement were reached. Chase is the sole issuer of the mass market consumer cards. Amex only allowed to issue a premium card and business card. Existing SPG cardholders keep their current product.
Am I understanding this correctly that for a so called premium/luxury card (new SPG), you won’t be even getting a middle tier?
I think there’s a better than insignificant chance that when the Ritz refresh occurs, that might put it as a 5/24 card from a programming standpoint at that time.
However, the best time to apply for a Ritz (independent of travel plans and being able to get/book the free nights) is around early to mid-December when you can triple up on the airline calendar year credits, even if you decide to cancel the card.
So two factors that I think are worth evaluating as well with the Ritz.
5/24 doesn’t have anything to do with it from a programming perspective FWIW
I don’t think there’s going to be a Rtiz card long-term. There’s not going to be a separate Ritz program long-term, and it’s Amex, not Chase, that has the rights to the “high-end” card for the new combined Marriott/Ritz/SPG program.
DoC, according to Frequent Miler’s interview with a Marriott VP, spending $10k on the Ritz-Carlton card will get you old Marriott Gold/new Marriott Platinum.
However, it’s unclear if that’s just for the remainder of 2018 or for 2019+ (which would make the RC card potentially very valuable). Any ideas?
That would certainly make more sense.
Anything wrong with getting the Marriott personal now, get the bonus, wait till August when I’m back to 4/24, cancel Marriott personal and apply for Marriott Plus? Already have all the other useful cards.
Opening/closing within that time frame might be an issue.
How so? Simply because it’s been less than a year before closing the personal?
Yes
For those at 10+/24 and considering going for the Marriott Biz don’t forget about the dreaded Chase shutdowns. There’s a Reddit thread that compiles data on this matter that you should review prior to applying if you are in that group of people https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/7jb8mp/shutdown_reports_megathread/. Some people with fewer than 10 but over 6 have been tagged by Chase as well, but it’s less common. Review the reports in the link to get an idea of your risk profile.
another reason probably not a good reason to slot 2 Sapphire cards in the same day, as Chase seems to be getting grumpy on things like that too.
It’s quite possible that shutdowns, FWIW from what I’ve aggregated from more than a few DP that Chase has now raised the bar beyond 5/24 and is now much more HP sensitive for those that don’t fit the typical breakout risk profile (i.e. a lot of us churners that have mortgages as well as one or more CU CC but nonetheless are matches for the rest of the breakout behavior). This is only a conclusion/inference I’m drawing from multiple recent DP. YMMV.
The DPs that I’ve aggregated seems to indicate that Chase is giving much more scrutiny to Biz card applications for those who are >5HP+/12mo for CIP, Chase Ink Business Cash 5HP/12Mo but unable to pinpoint why for DP for >5HP/12mo for the CIBC.
Recon calls shouldn’t be an issue for excessive HP that are Car/Mortgage shopping related but multiple HPs for CC apps in those time frames could be the tipping point to be flagged for human eyes review instead of an instant approvals (prior auto approve based on minimum FICOs threshold, utilization, and stated incomes, AAoA, etc).
Which seems to be them general direction that most who are over 5/24 have re-focused their attention with regards to Chase cards and bonuses.
Note: these are not auto DQ or denials (i.e. 5/24,etc) but more just DP that are indicating/trending to higher TD for those that fall into the criteria, as well as possibly flagging for temp/perm shutdown.
Non-Shutdown related but DPs gathered about Inquiry sensitive biz cards (Not auto DQ, but more DP that are indicators of denial trends) some BofA biz cards; Biz Adv Rew MC <8HP in 6Mo.
Amex Biz cards SPG biz Amex <3HP/6Mo, Pt Delta SkyMiles <3HP/6Mo, Gold Delta SkyMiles <3HP/6Mo, Amex Biz Green Rewards <3Hp/6Mo, Amex Plum Biz <3HP/6Mo, Blue Biz+ <4HP/6Mo, AMEX Biz Pt Open <5HP/6Mo, HH Amex <6HP/6Mo, BGR Open <6HP/6Mo, Delta Reserve <6HP/6Mo, Simply Cash+ Biz <6HP/6Mo
Capital One Spark Miles Select Biz <6HP/6Mo.
As DOC is far more civil than reddit, I'm not even bothering sharing this on reddit (even tho some info I collected is from reddit DP), but DOC has taught me more than any other site so this is my feeble attempt at paying it forward.
Interesting compilation! (We’re far more civil over here for sure 🙂 )
Disagree. I haven’t seen anything that has linked double dipping Sapphires specifically to a shutdown. As long as you haven’t hit Chase hard in the previous 12 months, say 3 other Chase cards in the last 12 months for instance, you should be good to go on that double dip. (If you don’t double dip Sapphires on the same day you lose the chance to get both bonuses for over 2 years.)
Just as a data point. I got my Chase Marriott approval a couple weeks ago right before the announcement news came about Marriott (I had been anticipating news and wanted to get in under any wire). I was ~18/12 with a few biz applications in there as well. I have 6 personal chase cards and had 1 business… now two.
I assume human eyes saw my account as I had to wait a few extra days before the approval.
I think I am going to officially take a cooler on Chase now… but who knows what the future will bring.
Just for those wondering if these shutdowns are as prevalent as being reported or if we just have a little bias.
My SO got 2 shut down letters this week. One for a hyatt card (opened last August) one for a freedom card (opened a long time ago), neither used recently.
Recently applied to IHG card (latest) and went pending. Haven’t reconned yet.
Recently applied for Marriott Biz, and approved, haven’t picked up or activated the card yet, and there is a chance a letter may have come or coming for that card as well.
Damn you chase shutdown team….
Obviously that is frightening. That said I keep cards open for more than a year for the benefits. Not sure if that plays into things at all, but I had my Sapphire for two years before downgrading it and then getting the CSR which I’ve paid two annual fees on. My MPE is being used for free luggage on two flights coming up so I kept that as well. By all accounts I may look a little credit seeking, but not a gamer? So who knows. I have so many UR that I need to be careful obviously.
No accounts manually closed on her account (just this forced shutdown). We both started this hobby last March so lots of activity in the last 13 months and basically nothing before that as far as new sign ups.
No UR points to worry about losing so that’s good.
Going to check and confirm on the Marriott biz card we haven’t retrieved or activated yet, recon the IHG, and try and get others reinstated.
Used to take a few months for a shutdown but the more recent DPs suggest its happening while apps are still in process so hopefully you’re good!
Shutdowns are rare I agree but there’s enough DPs just on Reddit now that our heavier hitters should be aware there’s a chance.
Oh absolutely. I agree 100% that being aware and weary of the situation is important. I think the big thing for me, that I have talked about before, is that this hobby has few exciting updates each year. So when something like this occurs and a few dozen stories arise about shutdowns, the blogs go crazy, people repeat it ad nauseam and it just becomes fact.
I think it mainly comes down to the fact that no one talks about how they didn’t get shut down. Just those that do.
I’m always vigilant, but I’m also willing to risk a little bit more and not worry too much about the shutdowns just yet.
Best of luck everyone. May the odds be in your favor.